Daily Bible Bollocks

[Norman Humann]

The Bible doesn't say what he did, just that he was "wicked". You'd have to do something pretty egregious to be referred to as wicked.

Uh-huh. Notice that he wasn't punished for doing something wicked, but for being wicked. So Er's offense can only be assumed as something pretty bad and the scripture explicitly says he was killed by god because god saw him as wicked. Some loving father.

Also I don't think anyone is against a proven murder getting the death penalty, it's just that a lot of errors are made in our human-run justice system, God's justice is perfect.

I'll have to disagree. The moral code presented in the bible is not only primitive, it's just as human as the justice systems we currently have, but far more unjust and immoral.

If you want to claim that the god of the bible is perfectly just, however, I suggest you take a good look at him. Condoning genocide, rape and slavery while condemning homosexuality is perfectly just? Drowning the Earth, destroying cities and most importantly, making the entirety of mankind suffer for the sins of two people? I think you need to check the definition of the word 'just'.

[abaris]

I guess you're not familiar with the idea of capital punishment.

Well, prominent early christians weren't too fond of the idea either, which makes them quite a bit more appealing than todays evangelical brand. Athenagoras of Athens stated that Christians not only are forbidden to kill anyone for any reason, but also that “we cannot endure even to see a man put to death, though justly".

Only one of countless examples.

[Silver]

The Bible doesn't say what he did, just that he was "wicked"

The primitive men who wrote the horrible piece of fiction known as the bible considered anything they personally disliked to be wicked. I cannot and will not count on such a source for morality.

[ManMachine]

I thought it was time to get back to basics and lighten the discussions a bit so following on from my last topic of pigeons, turtles and menstruation I have another piece of choice scripture.

Introducing another long time OT favorite that stops all those naughty christian boys from knocking a sly one out, I present.......

Genesis 38:7-10 KJV

And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord ; and the Lord slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the Lord : wherefore he slew him also.

Presumably the author wasn't just indecisive about what to....er.....write at the beginning and Er was actually a person. Other than that, I don't know where to start with this tripe so I hand it over to you all to disect.

"Mum's just bought herself a leaning post
It's made of words and pages
It says god gives us all our daily toast
but Dad still earns the wages"

Feeling all the Saturday ~ Roy Harper

MM

[dyresand]

I guess you're not familiar with the idea of capital punishment.

Well, prominent early christians weren't too fond of the idea either, which makes them quite a bit more appealing than todays evangelical brand. Athenagoras of Athens stated that Christians not only are forbidden to kill anyone for any reason, but also that “we cannot endure even to see a man put to death, though justly".

Only one of countless examples.

Which is weird when did the dramatic change happen...
that bothers me a lot now that i think about it.

[TubbyTubby]

And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

I didn't look at this carefully enough. He was actually on the vinegar stroke before he decided it was wrong and pulled out and spuffed on the floor (and why on the floor and not the bed?).

I can just imagine Onan and his new wife really getting it on, Onan nearing his climax and then his ex sister-in-law shouting "oh god, oh god, oh GOD....". This then snaps Onan back into reality, realises god is watching his every move , and, panicking, pulls out.

Presumably he had already married the girl before they got in the sack which makes the death penalty here seem even harsher.

Either that or they were just going for a kinky facial but missed? That would be even more of an injust sentence.

[dyresand]

And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

I didn't look at this carefully enough. He was actually on the vinegar stroke before he decided it was wrong and pulled out and spuffed on the floor (and why on the floor and not the bed?).

I can just imagine Onan and his new wife really getting it on, Onan nearing his climax and then his ex sister-in-law shouting "oh god, oh god, oh GOD....". This then snaps Onan back into reality, realises god is watching his every move , and, panicking, pulls out.

Presumably he had already married the girl before they got in the sack which makes the death penalty here seem even harsher.

Either that or they were just going for a kinky facial but missed? That would be even more of an injust sentence.

I think its a whole thing about rubbing one off is being a sin when its healthy then again you would get a hand chopped off for doing it back in those days.

[Jenny A]

*gasp* I'm going to have to agree with the Professor on this one--at least about what it means. It mattered to Hebrew men a great deal at that time that they have sons to carry on their name. When a man died without sons, his brother was supposed to marry the widow and have sex with her until she had a son, and that son was to be raised as the son of the deceased brother. Onan didn't want any son of his raised as his brother's, so he defied god's direct order by making sure he didn't have any children with his brother's widow. He was using primitive birth control, the withdrawal method in fact.

God killed him for disobeying. That's simple enough. Icky, but simple. The idea that he was killed for being generally wicked is silly. The story tells us in what way he was wicked. Apparently, not obeying an order to have sex with your brother's wife is sufficiently wicked to merit the death penalty. What else would we expect from a god who dooms an entire species because two people ate a piece of fruit.

[dyresand]

*gasp* I'm going to have to agree with the Professor on this one--at least about what it means. It mattered to Hebrew men a great deal at that time that they have sons to carry on their name. When a man died without sons, his brother was supposed to marry the widow and have sex with her until she had a son, and that son was to be raised as the son of the deceased brother. Onan didn't want any son of his raised as his brother's, so he defied god's direct order by making sure he didn't have any children with his brother's widow. He was using primitive birth control, the withdrawal method in fact.

God killed him for disobeying. That's simple enough. Icky, but simple. The idea that he was killed for being generally wicked is silly. The story tells us in what way he was wicked. Apparently, not obeying an order to have sex with your brother's wife is sufficiently wicked to merit the death penalty. What else would we expect from a god who dooms an entire species because two people ate a piece of fruit.

I think it was wrong for any being to say sleep with your brothers wife in the first place so i why he chose to rub one off rather than do as he is told.

[Minimalist]

Don't like someone? Murder their ass! Hey, it's in the bible, it must be true!

Oh and lest we forget: it's a metaphor. Duh.

I guess you're not familiar with the idea of capital punishment.

Presumably you are familiar with the idea of a "trial?" Probably not. You sound like an asshole.