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Can Life Be A Test?
#1
Can Life Be A Test?
Why Life Cannot Be a Test...

When Stephen Fry was interviewed on RTÉ (Irish broadcaster) about his views on deities the video went viral. The Muhammadans who responded to the interview were like “Hahaha, you Atheist, life is a test!” But can this really be the case?

I take issue with this trope and I hate it, mainly because people would have you believe that all suffering, include unnecessary suffering, is necessary. My first contention is that no two Humans are the same. As a result, no two lives are the same. Humans are not created equally.

To counter this trope I like to use the analogy of the lecturer who has (at least) two students. This lecturer expects all of their students to get the best grade in the test they are studying for. All of the students are studying the same syllabus.

Additionally, they are each given the same one book to study from and they aren’t allowed to use any books other than the one given to them by the lecturer to study from. If they study using a book other than the one given to them they fail the test even though the lecturer knows that the book they have been given doesn’t include everything they need to pass the test.

However no two tests the lecturer hands to the students are the same and the students sit their tests at different times and on different days. Despite knowing that some of the students are being given a harder test, and that some students are being given longer to study for the test, the teacher still expects every student to get the best/top grade, otherwise they fail the test. If they fail the test then they have no chance of retaking it.

No student would want to be taught by that teacher. Yet if you replace the lecturer with Allah, this is essentially what Muhammadans have to believe in order to say that life is a test. Since Humans were not created equally life cannot be a test – that is my argument.

For life to be a test, surely, everybody should be given the same test. There could be no variation between Humans whatsoever and free will would have to be taken away. If free will is not taken away then choice and chance can influence the result of the test and therefore not everyone is receiving the same test. The only way, in my opinion, for life to be a test is if there was no variation in the lives of Humans and, therefore, no free will.

Here are some verses to think about - which suggest that there is no free will:

Quran 13:13 “Nay, thunder repeateth His praises, and so do the angels, with awe: He flingeth the loud-voiced thunder-bolts, and therewith He striketh whomsoever He will.. yet these (are the men) who (dare to) dispute about Allah, with the strength of His power (supreme)!”
(Maybe this is the reason why the number thirteen is considered unlucky?)

Quran 64:11 “No kind of calamity can occur, except by the leave of Allah: and if any one believes in Allah, (Allah) guides his heart (aright): for Allah knows all things.”

Quran 2:155 “Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,”

And the Quran tells us why there are people starving. It’s because Allah is a sick deity who gives and takes away resources from whomever he pleases, thus interviewing directly in the affairs of humanity. This notion is well supported in the Quran. Dare I say it, Allah enjoys watching the suffering of Humanity because, according to verses such as these, he is the cause of that suffering.

By the way, the word provision doesn't have to mean food, but it often does. However, the word "sustenance" is used in some of the below verses. Basically, all of the below verses allude to Allah causing people to suffer.

Quran 39:52 “Know they not that Allah enlarges the provision or restricts it, for any He pleases? Verily, in this are Signs for those who believe!”

Quran 30:37 “See they not that Allah enlarges the provision and restricts it, to whomsoever He pleases? Verily in that are Signs for those who believe.”

Quran 34:36 “Say: "Verily my Lord enlarges and restricts the Provision to whom He pleases, but most men understand not."”

Quran 29:62 “Allah enlarges the sustenance (which He gives) to whichever of His servants He pleases; and He (similarly) grants by (strict) measure, (as He pleases): for Allah has full knowledge of all things.”

Quran 28:82 “And those who had envied his position the day before began to say on the morrow: "Ah! it is indeed Allah Who enlarges the provision or restricts it, to any of His servants He pleases! had it not been that Allah was gracious to us, He could have caused the earth to swallow us up! Ah! those who reject Allah will assuredly never prosper."”

Quran 17:30 “Verily thy Lord doth provide sustenance in abundance for whom He pleaseth, and He provideth in a just measure. For He doth know and regard all His servants.”

Quran34:39 “Say: "Verily my Lord enlarges and restricts the Sustenance to such of his servants as He pleases: and nothing do ye spend in the least (in His cause) but He replaces it: for He is the Best of those who grant Sustenance.”

Quran 13:26 “Allah doth enlarge, or grant by (strict) measure, the sustenance (which He giveth) to whomso He pleaseth. (The wordly) rejoice in the life of this world: But the life of this world is but little comfort in the Hereafter.”

Why is the Quran so repetitive? Surely, if the Quran was not so repetitive then it could be much more concise, half the size and thus save a lot of paper.

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#2
RE: Can Life Be A Test?
In order to deceive people, there needs to be at least a waft of truth in the package.
That is my take on Islam.
I assume you posted your question for all AF, and not just Muslims.
Life is a test of sorts, but not the way you imagine.
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#3
RE: Can Life Be A Test?
(March 11, 2015 at 6:31 pm)professor Wrote: In order to deceive people, there needs to be at least a waft of truth in the package.
That is my take on Islam.
I assume you posted your question for all AF, and not just Muslims.
Life is a test of sorts, but not the way you imagine.
Life is testing, yes, but I don't believe it's something we can get graded on - not fairly anyway - is the crux of my argument. I am confused and saddened by people who claim that there is suffering because life is a test. And yes, I posted this question for anybody interested and am not limiting to any particular group. Use the Quran verses I have provided in your polemics as I'm sure they will be useful.

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#4
RE: Can Life Be A Test?
A test requires intent. What is the intender?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
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-- The Rev Lovejoy
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#5
RE: Can Life Be A Test?
(March 11, 2015 at 7:58 pm)IATIA Wrote: A test requires intent. What is the intender?

And what is it trying to learn that it doesn't already know?
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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#6
RE: Can Life Be A Test?
The standard practice for tests includes a score earned.
If one is wise, they will find out what is needed to pass BEFORE the test.
In a corrupted world bad things happen to everybody, suffering was not the initial situation nor the intent of the designer.
If you want to find the responsible parties- find a mirror.
Mirrors have been around a long time and the shoe fits.
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#7
RE: Can Life Be A Test?
(March 11, 2015 at 9:25 pm)professor Wrote: The standard practice for tests includes a score earned.
If one is wise, they will find out what is needed to pass BEFORE the test.
In a corrupted world bad things happen to everybody, suffering was not the initial situation nor the intent of the designer.
If you want to find the responsible parties- find a mirror.
Mirrors have been around a long time and the shoe fits.

Your talking about academic testing.

Scientific testing has nothing to do with scores. They are to test what will happen given a set of conditions. This definition is far more appropriate to what you christers always seem to refer to as a test.
"Oh, I lost my job, gawd must be testing me!!!"
"Oh, my cousin died, gawd must be testing me!!!"
"Oh, my gerbil ate my finger, gawd must be testing me!!!"

So why the fuck does an omniscient gawd need these types of tests? Doesn't it already know what the result will be, nullifying the need for the test in the first place? I know that your gawd is always mute on what the subject is supposed to learn.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
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#8
RE: Can Life Be A Test?
(March 11, 2015 at 9:25 pm)professor Wrote: The standard practice for tests includes a score earned.
If one is wise, they will find out what is needed to pass BEFORE the test.
In a corrupted world bad things happen to everybody, suffering was not the initial situation nor the intent of the designer.
If you want to find the responsible parties- find a mirror.
Mirrors have been around a long time and the shoe fits.
While that is true (that the majority of people will study before an exam), my analogy rests on the fact that giving students different exams and still expecting all of them to get the same grade, the top grade, is unfair. Since one exam, in the analogy, is more difficult than the other (because it has harder questions) it makes it harder to get the top grade.

As an example, let's suppose one of the exams has questions such as:
2+2= ?
And getting this question correct is worth ten points.

And a different exam includes advanced algebra in it but getting each algebra question correct is only worth one point. The person who has the algebra questions has more they need to do/remember in order to get the expected grade. Both students may have studied but they didn't know what, exactly, would be in their test. Clearly the student getting the exam with lots of really easy questions, such as 2+2, is going to have a much higher chance of getting the expected grade.

All of the exams give the students a possibility of obtaining the A grade but I don't think anybody would argue that the lecturer is being fair to their students. Yet when we replace the lecturer with Allah somehow it's now fair that people are all given different tests. No two tests that Allah gives to people will be exactly the same and yet people are all expected to get the same result. Being a heterosexual man I obviously have a much easier chance of getting into Jannah than a homosexual, for example.

WTF people?

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#9
RE: Can Life Be A Test?
Quote:All of the exams give the students a possibility of obtaining the A grade but I don't think anybody would argue that the lecturer is being fair to their students. Yet when we replace the lecturer with Allah somehow it's now fair that people are all given different tests. No two tests that Allah gives to people will be exactly the same and yet people are all expected to get the same result. Being a heterosexual man I obviously have a much easier chance of getting into Jannah than a homosexual, for example.

Who's Jannah? And what about the other 71? :p

Nice work dissecting their bullshit Smile
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#10
RE: Can Life Be A Test?
(March 12, 2015 at 5:12 am)robvalue Wrote: Who's Jannah? And what about the other 71? :p

Nice work dissecting their bullshit Smile
Jannah, an eternal place for Muslims, is the Islamic conception of paradise, to quote the Wikipedia page on it. Also, thanks for the appreciation. I appreciate it.

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