Deist vs Christian debates?

[abaris]

That's a mere verbal dispute. Point is about talking about people who believe in a god and don't believe in religion.

And I gave you my personal example from past experience, which you obviously dismissed.

[Cato]

Does anyone here know of any debates where a deist debates a Christian, especially debating the Bible being inspired by a god?

I wouldn't even go this far. I simply ask that Christians that aren't completely fucked in the head (a slight majority here in the U.S.) start being vocal about how idiotic the evangelicals are.

[Pizza]

That's a mere verbal dispute. Point is about talking about people who believe in a god and don't believe in religion.

And I gave you my personal example from past experience, which you obviously dismissed.

Do you not understand what a verbal dispute is? I'm okay with your definition.

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That's a mere verbal dispute. Point is about talking about people who believe in a god and don't believe in religion.

Ugh! I need to learn to proof read more.
This is what meant to say: That's a mere verbal dispute. The point is I'm talking about a broader group of people including those who believe in a god and don't believe in religion.

Also I am sorry abaris. I didn't read you original post correctly.

[Dystopia]

@abaris

Someone who doesn't follow any religion but believes in god may be a deist or simply a liberal theist - Theists believe in an interventive and super concerned entity, while deists prefer the model of the god that creates everything and step aside. In theory you are not automatically a deist if you don't follow any religion but believe in god, it depends entirely on how you define god. If you believe, let's say, in an omnipotent god you are probably just a liberal theist.

That being said, a deist is a theist, deism is a sub-sect of theism. You may be a liberal theist and a deist, but you don't need to be both. There's literature and doctrines of deism, as well as several branches.

[bennyboy]

Every Christian debater is a Deist until just before the curtains close. WLC always does this-- argues intelligent design, the need for an unmade conscious maker, etc. Then at the end of the debate, he blurts out ". . . so Jesus Christ praise God read the Bible."

[Pizza]

Dystopia said what I was trying to say. You can have theists that believe in miracles but are agnostic about which miracles claims are the real deal. You can have theists that are agnostic about the attributes god has, and have others that reject the attributes traditionally given to god like omnipotent and etc.

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Every Christian debater is a Deist until just before the curtains close. WLC always does this-- argues intelligent design, the need for an unmade conscious maker, etc. Then at the end of the debate, he blurts out ". . . so Jesus Christ praise God read the Bible."

Hitchens was good at calling apologists out for that. I haven't heard his debate with Craig, I imagine Craig saying something like "that's irrelevant because I'm not arguing for Christianity and I have to remind the audience that you have failed to prove god does not exist," or some slimy reply like that.

[robvalue]

Some christians are seemingly incapable of seeing the distinction between "a god" and "their God". But people like WLC are all too familiar, which is why they pick the most opportune moments for their sleight of arse hand.

I really hate willful dishonesty in debate. It's pathetic. On the other hand, it actually works in favour of atheism as it shows that even "professionals" need to resort to deception to make their case.

[abaris]

Theists believe in an interventive and super concerned entity, while deists prefer the model of the god that creates everything and step aside.

On which side of the spectrum would politheistic believers fall according to that? I've encountered quite a lot of them. Where every deity has it's own role and limited powers according to it's nature? I've also encountered pantheists, who believe everything to be part of the divine.

[jesus_wept]

I'm thinking about becoming a deist, just so I can cut out all the crap when debating theists and say "yes, I agree there is a creator but I'm a deist and I don't think he has any interest in us, now how do we get from a god who created the universe (my deist god) to your particular brand of insanity?"

I'm growing tired of hearing the same old strawmen and non sequiturs and think this could be an excellent way to get rid of them all in one fell swoop. For all intents and purposes I'd still be an atheist, I just wouldn't need to hear them blathering on about a creator any more.

[robvalue]

Yeah, that is DeistPaladin's approach and I can see a lot of value in it.

I've tried it recently, and when I say "Now what?" they got nothing and slink away back into the corner. You can just say you're a Deist whether you believe it or not, in order to access that shortcut. What are they going to do, strap you to a lie detector? :p