Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 1:25 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
A Si Fi watchmaker.
#31
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
(March 20, 2015 at 3:21 pm)AFTT47 Wrote:
(March 20, 2015 at 11:16 am)Brian37 Wrote: Si fi is not science anymore than religion explains anything.

NO KIDDING! Who's claiming that it is? Lots of people (including probably the majority of scientists and engineers) are inspired by it but I've never met a single person who thinks a thing is real because of some science fiction they read or watched. I'm sure some exist but they are harmless. Do you see dilithium crystals working their way into text books or politicians insisting that we need to establish relations with the Romulans? It's a non-issue.

(March 20, 2015 at 11:16 am)Brian37 Wrote: Like I said, the experts at the top of science already have enough of a hard time even with everything they get right without laypeople gap filling and assuming what they are really saying.

What are you saying here? The scientific process is hindered because of something non-scientists think? How?

(March 20, 2015 at 11:16 am)Brian37 Wrote: The reason I say Si fi isn't even science is because you watch tons of it you will understand most of it goes nowhere and will never be a reality. Ideas have to be tested, not merely claimed.

Who is claiming anything? Sure, people may explore the possibilities of how this or that fictional technology might actually be achieved. So what? What do you care if somebody does claim that such and such a device can actually be built and they don't justify it? Where is the harm? Is it going to have any impact on actual design and engineering?

It sounds like you just can't make peace with the fact that not everyone thinks the same way you do or has the same priorities. If that's the case, you are in for a lifetime of frustration and misery.

Let me repeat, here is how science works.

Idea, collect data through proper methodology, set up control groups, test and falsify, peer review.

NOT

Idea, is true by default because it feels right.

Entertainment is still entertainment and does not constitute science. Entertainment is fine, but it cannot replace science.
Reply
#32
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
More often than positing how some sci fi tech might be achieved, good sci fi posits questions about -the use of that tech if it could be acheived-...and very often that tech stands in for a relevant issue -of today-. Minority Report, for example, wastes very little time explaining just how the precogs ability works..... instead it forces us to ask ourselves whether we would be willing to charge and incarcerate people for "pre-crime".

The question here is not what cocktail of drugs we could feed people in order to achieve extra-sensory abilities...but whether or not we as the reader (or they as the author) would be comfortable with profiling (for example) as a basis for incarceration - if we could foretell the future - with some measure of demonstrable success....would we actually feel comfortable using that tech in that manner? Good sci fi isn't about a time machine, it's about the person in the chair -of that time machine-, rgr? Blade Runner asks us what it means to be human and whether or not it's even important to be a "real human", it's not a technical manual for the construction of a convincing android or even an endorsement of any particular proposal that someone may have for the same.
(and last I checked, sci fi makes no claims to either of the latter)


I don't imagine that anyone thinks that "there are talking pigs in it!" is a competent criticism of Animal Farm......
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#33
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
(March 20, 2015 at 2:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(March 20, 2015 at 11:26 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Brian, must I explain a major difference between religious works and say star trek? Nobody your going to hell if you don't worship Benjamin Sisco, nobody expects you to think there are actually cyborgic people trying to kill you.
The best science fiction uses the backdrop of a science fiction setting to examine something about humanity. Like say forever war by Joe Haldeman. So in other words brian, get the log out of your ass.

Do you know why you don't let si fi go either? Homapathy, perpetual motion machines, Scientology, De Pak Chumphead. Lots of cons are because someone wants it to be true and mixes real words of science into their claptrap.

Entertainment is still entertainment. Si fi is really no different than the Cat In the Hat and Charlotte's Web, Animal Farm and 1984. All of those have questions about morality in them. Si fi isn't the only fiction that makes suggestions about axioms or morality.

I have NO problem finding morals in any work of fiction, si fi or otherwise. But none of them constitute science. Just treat them for what they are, entertainment.

Okay, so what your confusing is new age spiritual woo with science fiction. Here is the difference, nobody says works of science fiction are true hence the fiction part of the name, where as everything you mentioned above has a dedicated following of people that purport it too be true. Let me clarify, any science fiction writer will tell you without batting an eye that their works are fictional, excepting Ron Hubbard. Now try getting Deepak Chopra to admit his routine is fiction.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Reply
#34
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
(March 20, 2015 at 6:12 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote:
(March 20, 2015 at 2:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Do you know why you don't let si fi go either? Homapathy, perpetual motion machines, Scientology, De Pak Chumphead. Lots of cons are because someone wants it to be true and mixes real words of science into their claptrap.

Entertainment is still entertainment. Si fi is really no different than the Cat In the Hat and Charlotte's Web, Animal Farm and 1984. All of those have questions about morality in them. Si fi isn't the only fiction that makes suggestions about axioms or morality.

I have NO problem finding morals in any work of fiction, si fi or otherwise. But none of them constitute science. Just treat them for what they are, entertainment.

Okay, so what your confusing is new age spiritual woo with science fiction. Here is the difference, nobody says works of science fiction are true hence the fiction part of the name, where as everything you mentioned above has a dedicated following of people that purport it too be true. Let me clarify, any science fiction writer will tell you without batting an eye that their works are fictional, excepting Ron Hubbard. Now try getting Deepak Chopra to admit his routine is fiction.

Stop trying to separate one type of fiction from another.

It is still stuck on pretty. If you are going to say si fi fiction is better than any other I think that is bullshit. It still amounts to a case of the warm fuzzies. I get that you like it, but what it postulates has no special value other than reflecting the same good vs evil, empathy vs cruelty morality you find elsewhere.

If a si fi fan admits it is just that, fine. But by virtue that you feel to separate it from other fiction says to me you are ignoring that others do twist it. I am not talking about you. I am talking about humans. The fact that L Ron Hubbard started a religion should say to you that even Star Trek and Star Wars can have fans too stupid to leave it as fantasy. That is how ALL religions are started.
Reply
#35
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
Wow. A four page rant on the evils of science fiction more vitriolic than most of us get over the buy-bull and those who believe it.

Very, very few people take any work of fiction, that is in fact presented as fiction, seriously

Brian, you're railing against an incredibly small number of loons.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
Reply
#36
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
railing against an incredibly small number of loons, or an incredibly small number of loons (one) railing?
Reply
#37
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
One railing against others, methinks.
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
Reply
#38
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
Name one work written by Ron Hubbard that has even close to the depth, story and metaphor of even star trek or star wars.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Reply
#39
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
Ohhh. I know! It was Battl... er... no.

The Inva... er... no

Dianete... umm....

This is harder than I thought!
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
Reply
#40
RE: A Si Fi watchmaker.
(March 21, 2015 at 12:52 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Ohhh. I know! It was Battl... er... no.

The Inva... er... no

Dianete... umm....

This is harder than I thought!
... Battlefield earth is so bad that my friends film and video class showed it as an example of how not to make a movie.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Reply





Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)