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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 25, 2010 at 5:05 pm
@Ace- I was speaking of Godless religions like buddhism.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 25, 2010 at 5:11 pm
(March 25, 2010 at 5:05 pm)tackattack Wrote: @Ace- I was speaking of Godless religions like buddhism.
Or Scientology.
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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 25, 2010 at 5:28 pm
(March 25, 2010 at 5:05 pm)tackattack Wrote: @Ace- I was speaking of Godless religions like buddhism.
Ah, I get it now. 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 25, 2010 at 6:38 pm
(This post was last modified: March 25, 2010 at 6:48 pm by tavarish.)
(March 25, 2010 at 3:17 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You're not holding on to religion you're holding on to superstition, which is part of the spiritual experience that would encompass both. Atheism is the denial of reality and the limitation of it to the material, which is ultimately illogical.
Yes, the non-belief in a magical omnipotent creator who presents himself only to those who already assume he exists - is denying reality.
Atheism doesn't presuppose naturalism, genius.
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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 25, 2010 at 6:40 pm
(March 25, 2010 at 5:11 pm)Synackaon Wrote: (March 25, 2010 at 5:05 pm)tackattack Wrote: @Ace- I was speaking of Godless religions like buddhism.
Or Scientology.
Or christianity. Oh hell, they're all Godless as a God existing is most highly improbable.
I used to tell a lot of religious jokes. Not any more, I'm a registered sects offender.
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...the least christian thing a person can do is to become a christian. ~Chuck
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NO MA'AM
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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 25, 2010 at 6:43 pm
(March 25, 2010 at 11:43 am)sunflash Wrote: I used to be a Christian until I came accross a Jewish site which convinced me that Christianity is false. Now, I would consider myself an agnostic, but I feel like I should follow a religion simply to avoid a bad afterlife. I know this sounds cowardly and that there are so many choices, but I grew up believing in a burning hell and I find the idea of this terrifying.
But I don't think I can follow a religion that condemns people for their beleifs, sexuality, race etc and this is one reason why I haven't followed a religion yet. There are a few reasons, but fear keeps me in this sort of limbo.
How can I let go of religion?
Hello Sunflash and welcome.
I was braught up a Roman Catholic and even went to a RC School.
The only thing I can suggest is to read up on (I'm also including watching documentaries and any other way to aquire information) a wide range of subjects looking at both the supporters and detractors arguament, but the important part is to question everything you come accross, be it religion, politics, science or anything else. Don't be afraid to read something you think you'll disagree with and try and keep an open mind and if you agree or disagree with something, ask yourself why.
Hope this helps
Chris
Archeologists near mount Sinai have discovered what is believed to be a
missing page from the Bible. The page is currently being carbon dated in
Bonn. If genuine it belongs at the beginning of the Bible and is believed to
read "To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are
fictitous and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely
coincidental." - Newsreader in 'Red Dwarf 2: Better Than Life'
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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 25, 2010 at 9:05 pm
(March 25, 2010 at 6:38 pm)tavarish Wrote: (March 25, 2010 at 3:17 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You're not holding on to religion you're holding on to superstition, which is part of the spiritual experience that would encompass both. Atheism is the denial of reality and the limitation of it to the material, which is ultimately illogical.
Yes, the non-belief in a magical omnipotent creator who presents himself only to those who already assume he exists - is denying reality.
Atheism doesn't presuppose naturalism, genius.
You're trying to dodge it. Let me help you... You deny spirituality observed in every human group. Therefore you deny naturalism.
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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 25, 2010 at 10:30 pm
If you can believe in a firery chell if one does no good deed, you can believe too in a fiery hell if one does good deed
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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 26, 2010 at 8:53 am
(This post was last modified: March 26, 2010 at 8:55 am by libraryowl.)
Quote:I used to be a Christian until I came accross a Jewish site which convinced me that Christianity is false. Now, I would consider myself an agnostic, but I feel like I should follow a religion simply to avoid a bad afterlife. I know this sounds cowardly and that there are so many choices, but I grew up believing in a burning hell and I find the idea of this terrifying.
But I don't think I can follow a religion that condemns people for their beleifs, sexuality, race etc and this is one reason why I haven't followed a religion yet. There are a few reasons, but fear keeps me in this sort of limbo.
How can I let go of religion?
If you're honest with yourself, you probably can't.
Now I know thats going to alarm everyone. We've studied the bible, we know it contradicts itself. For those of us that have truly rejected religion, we see the biblical God not only as false, but as profoundly evil. Did you ever have the experience of looking at a crucifix, and recognizing that the Christian God hates humaity so much he put it to death on a cross? Argument has no answer for such a God. Socrates in the Phaedo and his arguments about how the just man cannot be condemned carry no weight.
I said you couldn't let go of religion. That's because religion is scary. The biblical God is, at his heart, not a rational all-knowing ruler of the universe, but a terrifying and numinous Lord of Power, who demands blood sacrifice in atonement for sin. Monsters like that don't vanish with the light. Logic and reason can't remove the terror they inspire in our hearts.
If there is an answer at all, it is courage. In Dante's inferno, Dante meets many souls that are suffering in hell, but he also meets a heretic named Farinata, "who rose from the ground," this being his punishment for denying the ressurection, "not with a look of pain but a face of utter scorn." If you become like Farinata, perhaps you could face the Biblical God (if indeed he exists) at the end of time with "a face of utter scorn," a face that reveals your contempt for his justice.
Of course, from a philosophical standpoint, the very idea that there is a God who does not conform to the universal standards of justice reveals the lie of Christianity even more, but, like I said, once that stuff gets in your head, there's nothing you can do to get rid of it.
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RE: Can't seem to let go
March 26, 2010 at 10:07 am
(March 25, 2010 at 9:05 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: (March 25, 2010 at 6:38 pm)tavarish Wrote: (March 25, 2010 at 3:17 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You're not holding on to religion you're holding on to superstition, which is part of the spiritual experience that would encompass both. Atheism is the denial of reality and the limitation of it to the material, which is ultimately illogical.
Yes, the non-belief in a magical omnipotent creator who presents himself only to those who already assume he exists - is denying reality.
Atheism doesn't presuppose naturalism, genius.
You're trying to dodge it. Let me help you... You deny spirituality observed in every human group. Therefore you deny naturalism.
Now here's the part where you explain how spirituality is a part of methodological naturalism and not pseudoscience. Also, you still haven't presented a case in which atheism necessarily presupposes naturalism.
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