Narcissism

[Jenny A]

 noun

1.
inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.
. . .
2.
Psychoanalysis. erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

[url= http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/n...ionary.com[/url]

I begin with the dictionary, because I a puzzled but what is becoming a more and more frequent accusation against atheists on various forums:  narcissism.   According to many Christians, not believing in god is definitionally narcissistic.  Obviously it is not the second meaning of the word that's meant.  Even the most bent Christian can't mean that not to believe in god is to get off on your physical appearance.  So it must be vanity or self-love of the non-erotic variety that is meant. 

My question is how is atheism related to self love or facination with oneself?   Because it seems to me that one could either love or hate oneself and still not believe in god.  I really see no connection. In fact, self hate is another accusation commonly made of atheists.  Being a self loathing narcissist would be quite a trick.

It seems to me that Christianity can cut both ways on this too.  In the gospels Jesus asks people to be humble.  On the other hand believing that you are made in the image of god, hardly seems modest.  Nor does thinking that god takes the time to communicate with you personally.

[Alex K]

The Christians I've encountered who have thrown such accusations around think that atheists reject God in order to elevate themselves to ersatz Gods taking His place. This would then be perceived as highly narcissistic. They are so used to thinking in these categories that they cannot fathom how abolishing God can mean anything but wanting to play God oneself. In a sense, I can understand the sentiment on some superficial level, since as an atheist, you more or less have to assume the position of moral arbiter yourself. Of course, we are not isolated islands but are part of a society which shapes us, and we assume this position not out of boundless self-love, but out of necessity.

[Polaris]

The Christians I've encountered who have thrown such accusations around think that atheists reject God in order to elevate themselves to ersatz Gods taking His place. This would then be perceived as highly narcissistic. They are so used to thinking in these categories that they cannot fathom how abolishing God can mean anything but wanting to play God oneself.

Maybe they also think of the stereotypical atheist...the high school drop-out who makes anti-religious comments to appear smarter. Can that as well influence their mistaken views of atheists being narcissistic?

[Alex K]

The Christians I've encountered who have thrown such accusations around think that atheists reject God in order to elevate themselves to ersatz Gods taking His place. This would then be perceived as highly narcissistic. They are so used to thinking in these categories that they cannot fathom how abolishing God can mean anything but wanting to play God oneself.

Maybe they also think of the stereotypical atheist...the high school drop-out who makes anti-religious comments to appear smarter. Can that as well influence their mistaken views of atheists being narcissistic?

I dunno...
Is that the stereotypical atheist in the eyes of many US christians, frustrated high school dropout? I don't seem to remember encountering many of that sort in the US. Where does this stereotype come from?

By the way, where I live now, the stereotypical atheist is "ordinary person next door". Just sayin...

[Pyrrho]

...

My question is how is atheism related to self love or facination with oneself?   Because it seems to me that one could either love or hate oneself and still not believe in god.  I really see no connection. In fact, self hate is another accusation commonly made of atheists.  Being a self loathing narcissist would be quite a trick.

...

You see no connection because there is no connection.  The fact that Christians want it both ways, as you have observed, shows that they are wrong, if they are imagining these as pure traits.

Basically, they throw out accusations, hoping something will stick.  It is just a bunch of bullshit.  It should be obvious to anyone who understands what it is to not be a theist, that there is no special trait uniting them beyond their lack of belief, just like there is no great unity among those who are not plumbers or those who are not stamp collectors.  Not being a plumber is not an occupation, and not being a stamp collector is not a hobby.

So, an atheist could be a narcissist, or not.  And an atheist could feel self-loathing, or not.  Just the same as someone who is a Christian or other religionist could be a narcissist or feel self-loathing.

There is one little thing, though, that I disagree with.  It is not hard for people to be narcissistic in some ways, and self-loathing in others.  That fits well with being a traditional Christian, who feels dirty and bad for sin, but feels important that God is going to reward him with heaven for being obsequious.  People can be incoherent and inconsistent, and are more often than is ideal.  That helps a Christian quite a lot when he or she is faced with the contradictions and incoherence of the Bible.

[Minimalist]

There is nothing more narcissistic than a religious shit who thinks the creator of the universe is his special friend.  How fucking obnoxious is that?

[Jenny A]

Maybe they also think of the stereotypical atheist...the high school drop-out who makes anti-religious comments to appear smarter. Can that as well influence their mistaken views of atheists being narcissistic?

The sterotypical atheist is a high school drop out?  A sarcastic, irreverant teen I might buy.  But a drop-out?  Do Christians really think the average atheist is a high school drop out.  I thought we were supposed to be elitists.  The outspoken atheists I knew in school were invariably smart as well as obnoxious.

But thank you for the word "mistaken."


 

[Alex K]

Yup, it goes like this:

"I'm such a special snowflake! A bad, bad sinful special snowflake!" *chastizes self, pats self on back for being so pious*

[Joods]

Maybe they also think of the stereotypical atheist...the high school drop-out who makes anti-religious comments to appear smarter.

Wow... I'm pretty sure you just offended a whole bunch of people with this comment.

I graduated from high school in 1989. June 4th, to be exact. It was a Sunday.

Based on my history, I do NOT fit your assumption.

[Iroscato]

Maybe they also think of the stereotypical atheist...the high school drop-out who makes anti-religious comments to appear smarter.

Wow... I'm pretty sure you just offended a whole bunch of people with this comment.

I graduated from high school in 1989. June 4th, to be exact. It was a Sunday.

Based on my history, I do NOT fit your assumption.

I think the key word there was 'stereotypical'. I can see why that would be the 'stereotypical' view held by many christians. Just as there are stereotypical views of gay people by homophobes and black people by racists.
Doesn't mean Polaris himself holds that view.