Ask ze German

[Pyrrho]

I have never had a good German wine. and I've had a lot of wine A LOT OF WINE.

I see two reasons, first of all the stuff American supermarkets care to buy and import from here is not necessarily the pinnacle of wine culture, and secondly, German dry whites are often perceived as sour by Americans who are used to sweeter wines. It's a bit of an acquired taste

I may add, in some stores in the U.S. in which I have seen wine sold, all of the German wine is cheap stuff.  So you could try every German wine from some stores and only get swill.  But not generally worse swill than other wines sold at similar prices.

I have had good German wine in Germany, and I have had some good German wine while in the U.S.  However, most of the German wine I have seen sold here is not very good.


Edited to add:

This reminds me of my experience with beer.  While in Germany, I never had a bad beer.  I would go into little pubs in tiny towns, and just ask for a beer, and it was always good.  I cannot say that that would always work, as I went to a limited number of places, but I was quite impressed by the experience.  I would never just order a beer in the U.S., without perusing their beer selection.

While in the U.S., I have had German beer that is much worse than anything I had while in Germany.  But even the worst German beer that I have had in the U.S. is better than some commonly consumed American beers.  I have also had good German beer in the U.S.


It makes me wonder if they export all of their rejects to the U.S., along with some good stuff.

[ignoramus]

What's not to hate?

The first time I watch her live, I couldn't help thinking she is a man! Her mannerisms especially.

[Alex K]

What's not to hate?

The first time I watch her live, I couldn't help thinking she is a man! Her mannerisms especially.

So what? She can have reassignment surgery live on stage for all I care, if she'd start making music that deserves the name.

[downbeatplumb]

I have never had a good German wine. and I've had a lot of wine A LOT OF WINE.

I see two reasons, first of all the stuff American supermarkets care to buy and import from here is not necessarily the pinnacle of wine culture, and secondly, German dry whites are often perceived as sour by Americans who are used to sweeter wines. It's a bit of an acquired taste

Ah you are mistaking me for someone who has at some point in their life, been to America.
I am British and although I have been abroad to France and Greece that is as far as I have ventured.
Of course the Germans may be keeping "the good stuff" for themselves and only selling shit like Blue Nun (Blech) to us brits.
This would not surprise me and also explain why I have never had a decent german wine.

[Alex K]

I see two reasons, first of all the stuff American supermarkets care to buy and import from here is not necessarily the pinnacle of wine culture, and secondly, German dry whites are often perceived as sour by Americans who are used to sweeter wines. It's a bit of an acquired taste

Ah you are mistaking me for someone who has at some point in their life, been to America.
I am British and although I have been abroad to France and Greece that is as far as I have ventured.
Of course the Germans may be keeping "the good stuff" for themselves and only selling shit like Blue Nun (Blech) to us brits.
This would not surprise me and also explain why I have never had a decent german wine.

Oh no, I'm sorry! You all look alike to me

Blue Nun, oh horror, that is the English label for the infamous Liebfrauenmilch. That stuff is like the synonym for all that destroyed the reputation of german wine.

[Pyrrho]

You can also easily find Blue Nun in the U.S. That is stuff I would not recommend at all. Maybe one can make a decent wine spritzer out of it. Maybe. With mulled wine, one can use total swill, as the spices overcome everything, but I use red wine for that. But I am not sure how low one can go with a wine spritzer.

But let us hear the recommendations for good German wine that is vegan and available in the U.S. It does not matter whether it is red, white, sweet, dry, sparkling, or still.

[thesummerqueen]

My German friend Andre (who sometimes swings around here under "Ungodlyfossil") has amusing insights into regional prejudicial attitudes in Germany. Do you have any? I don't know why they make me laugh so hard, except that (contrary to observations on the first page, Germans are hysterical people) we Americans are so used to making fun of our own regional prejudices that we don't stop to think that other countries might have them as well.

[vorlon13]

I've heard Spandau Ballet is actually a British group !!

Say it ain't so !!!

[Alex K]

I've heard Spandau Ballet is actually a British group !!

Say it ain't so !!!

If they are any good, they are probably British. Germans are not really capable of making listenable pop music.

---

My German friend Andre (who sometimes swings around here under "Ungodlyfossil") has amusing insights into regional prejudicial attitudes in Germany. Do you have any? I don't know why they make me laugh so hard, except that (contrary to observations on the first page, Germans are hysterical people) we Americans are so used to making fun of our own regional prejudices that we don't stop to think that other countries might have them as well.

The regional differences within Germany are very visible because we were all separate duchies and kingdoms not too long ago and can be placed quite accurately by the way we speak. The fragmented structure of the empire resulted in very strong regional dialects to the point where they are unintelligible to a person living a 100 km away. Like anywhere in the western world, these dialects are getting watered down by mobility and mass media, which are mostly in standard high German (*roughly* identical to the high German dialects which were naturally spoken in central-northern Germany around the Hannover region). Even today, many people can't quite hide their origin even if they try their best to speak standard German. Conservative Bavarian politicians (kind of like the Texans of Germany, but Catholic, and not YECs) who regularly try to establish mandatory language tests for immigrants, are usually made fun of for not really mastering the language themselves.

I currently live in the westernmost place in Germany near Cologne, and I do. not. understand. their. humour.
They seem to be making jokes and quips all the time, and to me with my refined southern sensibilities it just sounds like they are snapping at me or insulting me all the time. I think they believe they have a sense of humour, but they really really don't. They just managed to convince themselves that riding on a clown car, wearing funny hats and insulting people is a kind of humour while being entirely unfunny. And I'm talking in relative terms to the rest of the country here.

There are a lot of traditional rivalries between former neighboring duchies which today are of course mostly tongue-in-cheek.

The big regional dialects don't all enjoy the same popularity in the country as a whole. The consistently least popular dialect is the Saxon one, I presume because it is strongly associated with the former GDR and its leaders, and eastern Germany in general. It sounds a bit hick and simple-minded to outsiders, and people speaking it face the prejudice of being difficult, less likable and less intelligent. The Berlin dialect, however, is usually perceived as neutral or in a positive light. You have to admire Berlin whether you like it or not, because it's the closest thing we have to a cultural center of global significance. There is a traditional rivalry between the Prussians (=Berlin) and the Bavarians (=Munich) for obvious reasons.

Here's a joke: some Bavarians are sitting in the Hofbräuhaus in Munich, eating the traditional salty Radish. They try to put some salt on it, but the salt shaker is clogged. They desperately try shaking it, but to no avail - no salt. A bemused Prussian sitting at the next table observes their struggle for a few minutes and at some point gets up, takes a tooth pick and cleans the holes. There you go, salt. Says one Bavarian to the other - I may not like these Prussians, but when it comes to high-tech, they know what they are doing.

Anyway.

The most popular regional dialects in the country on average are the Bavarian ones, which carry mostly positive connotations, but can sometimes also stand for conservatism and being backwards and slightly less sophisticated - but speakers of Bavarian dialects will by default be considered likable and at worst a bit coarse. This dialect group includes most Austrian dialects, but the relationship to Austrians is a different issue
Most other dialects range somewhere in between in popularity. The Swiss variety of German is considered extremely droll and cute by Germans, which pisses the Swiss off, you can't imagine how much.

I'm from the southwestern state of Palatinate and grew up a mere 10 miles away from the french border (Alsace). In the past, my state was under French as well as under Bavarian rule, and both have left their mark on our culture and language (no hard feelings nowadays, we're mostly proud of the resulting rich cultural heritage). We have quite a bit in common with our Alsacian neighbors, but they would never admit that (They are all fluent in German, but will hide that fact whenever Germans are around and they can get away with it. At the same time, they will insist on not being French whenever a Parisian snob is present).
To outsiders, we are generally considered likable (our accent has similarities to the bavarian ones, so there's a bonus), but maybe a bit slow and a bit too harmless. The stereotype is that we like our wine and food, and don't worry about much else. We're a bit like the hobbits in their shire, if you identify the Brandywine river with the Rhine. By that logic, Heidelberg would be Bree, I suppose.
During the Nazi era we were ruled by the most anti-semitic super-Nazis and consequently were the first Jew-free region in the 40s, but you couldn't tell nowadays - I'd say we're among the most liberal states today. There are virtually no Nazis, if you want to find those, you have to go to the former GDR and look for the counties with the highest unemployment rate.

There is one neighboring state of ours which got to choose whether they want to become German or French after WWII, and decided to become German - the Saarland. They are the smallest regular state and also sport a dialect that suffers from negative prejudice in the country as a whole. Being our neighbors, they are the traditional ass of most of our jokes. Well, 90% of them. Of course, they deserve it, because they really are as unsophisticated and stupid as the stereotype suggests.

Here's a joke - A Saarlander comes to a hardware store. "I'd like to complain about this chainsaw which I bought here last week. You promised that I could fell a dozen trees on a single afternoon with it, and I'm not barely done with one, after three days!!!". Says the shopkeeper, hmm, let's see whether there's something wrong with it. He pulls the starter and wroooom the chainsaw is running. Says the Saarländer: "Erm, excuse me, why is it making this noise?".

My wife is from what today is a part of northern Bavaria, and the running gag is that they are not really a part of cultural Bavaria, but are Franks. You can piss them off to no end by calling them Bavarians. They feel constantly threatened and belittled by the Bavarian occupation forces based in Munich. The hilarious thing is that the differences between Franks and Bavarians are nigh invisible to outsiders. However, since I've married one and spent many years of my life there, I can tell the difference and share the sentiment out of solidarity. Just as there are some separatists in Bavaria who would like to split from the federation, there are also Frankish separatists who would like to split from Bavaria as well, in a kind of fractal search for tribal identity. This is all good fun because none of it will ever come to fruition.

[Alex K]

But let us hear the recommendations for good German wine that is vegan and available in the U.S.  It does not matter whether it is red, white, sweet, dry, sparkling, or still.

Trouble is that I don't really know which ones are available in the US... Can you name a typical importer?