"The Four Horsemen"

[Salacious B. Crumb]

I'm a fan of Harris', but I much prefer to watch him debate rather than speak. He's a little more lively in a debate, where he often showcases his humor. In a discussion, he tends to drone on and he loses me. I never had that problem with Hitch or Dawkins. More so, Hitch.

Actually, Harris never loses me. That's the only thing I 'disagree' about, on the face of it.
Glad you are. Read The End Of Faith, did you? I, for one, thought it was a marvelous read.

I love Hitch. He always had a good comeback for the dishonest people he was debating. I love watching Hitch, Dawkins, and Harris. They always kick ass. I also like watching others, such as Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He always keeps my attention, and is such an awesome thinker. Have you read God is Not Great? I was going to buy The End of Faith or God is Not Great next, and was curious if you had a recommendation what my next one should be. I'm halfway through The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution and The God Delusion. I'm not all that impressed so far by The God Delusion. I think it may be because I've watched so many Youtube videos, watched many debates, and read a lot of material on atheism, that I've seen many of these arguments already. So far, it seems to be a good book for 'beginners' atheism, or people that are questioning their own faith. I'm really enjoying The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution, I think it's a great book for people that don't know much about it. There's a lot of easy to understand experiments in there that help you understand evolution, natural selection, etc. And if you or anyone else have a book recommendation on atheism, I'd be happy to hear it, although, I may just stick to the internet for now.

[Excited Penguin]

 was curious if you had a recommendation what my next one should be.

I hate to repeat myself. I think I already gave a warm review to one book in my previous reply. Haven't read Hitchens' book yet, at least not thoroughly, so can't say much about that, but Hitch was surely a great writer.

Harris though seems to be the author that started the whole thing back in 2004, so he's fairly important. Also, at least to me, he seems to be the most down-to-earth one of the bunch. His interests are pretty scattered, it's very interesting to listen to him talk about them. He has followed his debut with Lettter to a Christian Nation in 2006, a marvelous little book, written in response to his critics of the first one, in the form of an open letter, in order "to demolish the intellectual and moral pretensions of Christianity in its most committed forms." So you can read this one if you don't want to dig any deeper, though, at the risk of repeating myself, I thought The End Of Faith was simply mesmerizing with it's wit and scope. These are the only two books Harris has written exclusively about religion, so far.
He has also written about morality, lying, free will and spirituality  in the capacity of both a philosopher and a neuroscientist, I guess. I recommend all of them, though I haven't as yet finished in reading them - I am fairly sure they are all as good as what I've managed to read so far.
Harris also has a blog, it would be good to check that out if you wanted to hear him "rant" on other subjects. He has a variety of interests, including superintelligence, defending himself against critics[=D], and commenting on foreign policy. He has been demonstrated to be able to change his mind on things when he realises his error in judgement about something, though that doesn't happen all that much. He's not some yippie who doesn't know anything about anything, after all. The man is in his late forties, and it's interesting to know about his life. Check out his wiki page.

[QuarkDriven]

All four are pretty main stream... they/they're debates and talks are what helped me give up my faith... I suppose I should give half the credit of that to the religious half of those debates/talks... Listening to them defend their religion made it clear that it was all nonsense..

anyway, I've seen them all on video, and am currently reading Dawkins' "The God Delusion" I saw him and Dennet give a talk in Boston and he talked about his Clergy Project in which all these clergy have given up their faith but continue to preach the word of god and perform marriages, etc... they remain annonymous of course...
I was curious to learn more about this so I purchased his book "Caught in the Pulpit". I havent started this one just yet.

Currently reading:
A Brief History of Time - almost done - Hawkings
The God Delusion - just on chapter 3 - Dawkins
and The Black Cloud - just started - Hoyle (SciFi that was recommended by Dawkins)

Next on the list to read is "Something from Nothing" Lawrence Krauss and Dennet's Caught in the Pulpit

[Jenny A]

So... What do you think about these guys? Which ones did you read, watch on youtube or just plain heard about? They are what made me more active as an atheist at least, in recent times. They also taught me a lot about how bad religion really is(but mostly Harris, since I didn't really read the other guys' books much). Hitch is surely to be missed, though, and Dawkins is much regarded as the most famous atheist on the planet. Dennett, I don't know much about, but the fact that he's a philosopher is a definite plus for me.

I think I'd like a summary of the video is what I think.

Just for anyone who doesn't have the time either, the Four Horsemen of the Non-Apocalypse are:

Christopher Hitchens (a author, literary critic, and journalist, born British but now a U.S. citizen) took part in the The Great God Debate and wrote God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.  He died a couple years ago.

Sam Harris is a U.S. neuroscientist and philosopher.  He wrote: The End of Faith.

Richard Dawkins is a British evolutionary biologist and wrote a whole number of popular science books including the The Selfish Gene.  He also wrote The God Delusion.

Daniel Dennett is an American cognitive scientist and a philosopher.  He wrote Darwin's Dangerous Idea in which he contends that morality is the product of evolution.

All four are not only atheists, but think that religion is harmful.

[Excited Penguin]

So... What do you think about these guys? Which ones did you read, watch on youtube or just plain heard about? They are what made me more active as an atheist at least, in recent times. They also taught me a lot about how bad religion really is(but mostly Harris, since I didn't really read the other guys' books much). Hitch is surely to be missed, though, and Dawkins is much regarded as the most famous atheist on the planet. Dennett, I don't know much about, but the fact that he's a philosopher is a definite plus for me.

I think I'd like a summary of the video is what I think.

Thank you for your input.

This thread's intention was not to discuss the four authors' (lack of) religious views and atheist bibiliography though, but to discuss the video itself. Seeing how the video is too long and the participants of the filmed discussion are approaching too many subjects for me to summarise it, I thought it best to just present it to those who might be interested in watching it/discussing it.

You might be concerned about the fact that you didn't do that either(summarise the video, that is). What you did do is beside the point of your own suggestion.

If I start a thread about the Hannibal TV Series in the Media subforum, as one member did in fact already do, I won't summarise what the whole series is about but rather expect fellow fans of the series to discuss it with me. That was exactly my intention with this thread. Therefore this kind of critique misses the point and is redundant as such.

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All four are pretty main stream... they/they're debates and talks are what helped me give up my faith... I suppose I should give half the credit of that to the religious half of those debates/talks... Listening to them defend their religion made it clear that it was all nonsense..

anyway, I've seen them all on video, and am currently reading Dawkins' "The God Delusion" I saw him and Dennet give a talk in Boston and he talked about his Clergy Project in which all these clergy have given up their faith but continue to preach the word of god and perform marriages, etc... they remain annonymous of course...
I was curious to learn more about this so I purchased his book "Caught in the Pulpit". I havent started this one just yet.

Currently reading:
A Brief History of Time - almost done - Hawkings
The God Delusion - just on chapter 3 - Dawkins
and The Black Cloud - just started - Hoyle (SciFi that was recommended by Dawkins)

Next on the list to read is "Something from Nothing" Lawrence Krauss and Dennet's Caught in the Pulpit

Already read Hawking's A Brief History... I can understand why you felt compelled to read it. It's a very interesting topic, the one that is approached therein, isn't it?

I have already read Something From Nothing. I gladly applaud your wanting to read it. It's an illuminating account of how the universe might have started.

[Dystopia]

I prefer Freud.

[Excited Penguin]

I prefer Freud.

Try Nietzsche, you amateur.

[Pizza]

I prefer Freud.

Try Nietzsche, you amateur.

Try Hume, you amateur.

[abaris]

All four are pretty main stream... they/they're debates and talks are what helped me give up my faith... I suppose I should give half the credit of that to the religious half of those debates/talks... Listening to them defend their religion made it clear that it was all nonsense..

Curious. Prominent atheists didn't play any role in my giving up faith. Religion, religious people and what little I know about scientific facts were sufficient to make me quit.

And even now I'm not the least bit interested in arguments for atheism. As I said, I like Dawkins because of his tongue in cheek attitude. But I never felt the need or any interest to read any of their books. Listening to them debating off and on, yes, but otherwise not really interested. I know who Hitchens was of course, but I never once heard him speak or read anything he wrote. But it seems he was rather left leaning, which makes him an all right guy in my book.

[QuarkDriven]

All four are pretty main stream... they/they're debates and talks are what helped me give up my faith... I suppose I should give half the credit of that to the religious half of those debates/talks... Listening to them defend their religion made it clear that it was all nonsense..

Curious. Prominent atheists didn't play any role in my giving up faith. Religion, religious people and what little I know about scientific facts were sufficient to make me quit.

And even now I'm not the least bit interested in arguments for atheism. As I said, I like Dawkins because of his tongue in cheek attitude. But I never felt the need or any interest to read any of their books. Listening to them debating off and on, yes, but otherwise not really interested. I know who Hitchens was of course, but I never once heard him speak or read anything he wrote. But it seems he was rather left leaning, which makes him an all right guy in my book.

I sadly never gave religion much thought.. if someone asked, i would simply reply i was raised catholic and that would be the end of it... i dont recall exactly what i googled or youtubed to start looking into it but i definitely came across the names above... it wasnt so much the atheist's argument but the religious defense that made me open my eyes. The harder they tried defending it, the more i was like, what?!? and in a nutshell, thats how i became an atheist at 31 years old...

with that said, it is interesting to see the different points of view on athiesm... Dawkins of course coming from an evolutionary stand point.. Hitchens just despising religion, Krauss from a physicists POV....