Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 29, 2024, 9:26 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
"The Four Horsemen"
#31
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
(July 13, 2015 at 1:36 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote:
(July 13, 2015 at 1:33 pm)Dystopia Wrote: I prefer Freud.

Try Nietzsche, you amateur.

I've been thinking about reading more Nietzsche for a long time but his mustache is a huge turn off.

Seriously though, I've only read The God Delusion, I didn't find it as interesting or intellectually solid as many atheists - I like all of them, they make good points, but I disagree with many things, specifically on how some atheists see them as authorities and quote their arguments all the time. Here's me opinion on the best and worst of three authors (i've never read or watched Dennet so I can't comment on his reputation and skills)

Dawkins --> The best thing about this man is how he debunks the idea that religious belief and religion is special and deserves respect regardless of how rational or good it is. I think this is Dawkins strongest argument about religion and it has affected my way of thinking - Indeed, religion gets excessive respect for wrong or non-existent reasons. I fundamentally agree with him on that and I think he also makes good points on basic anti-theist arguments and debunking fallacies. I think he goes to far when he basically says that religion is equivalent to mental illness or that it is the predominant cause of evil around the world, or even that everything about religion is bad. He makes dumb statements on social issues as well, but that's not relevant right?

Hitchens - Makes excellent arguments for free speech V. religion and a good case on how religion has affected (even for non-believers) our culture and conditioned how we feel about many issues, even if we don't realize it ourselves. He also makes a good case for misotheism (Being against a god if he existed). His worst problem is the degree of anti-theism, but I guess it would be boring if he was super nice, right?

Harris - I love his arguments on religious morality and how there are evolutionary reasons for morality, I also think he makes good critiques on religious morality and interesting approaches on how theists' mind/brain work. He exaggerates when he promotes the idea that Islam is a unique special religion and that it is infinitely  worse than any other regardless of the circumstances. Islam is a religion with terrible things and good things, like any other, it causes harm and causes good.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

Reply
#32
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
(July 13, 2015 at 1:55 pm)Pizza Wrote:
(July 13, 2015 at 1:36 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: Try Nietzsche, you amateur.
Try Hume, you amateur.

Arguably, Freud was greatly influenced by Nietzsche. He is considered by some as his heir, in certain ways. He[Freud] definitely admired the man and his thinking. This is why I brought him up.

Between Hume and Nietzsche, on the other hand, there is no such relationship to be found, though there are certain similarities between the two of them upon approaching some topics. At least some would have you believe so - I do not necessarily agree with this point of view.

Here's what Nietzsche makes of your prescious Hume and his kind of philosophy , in his Beyond Good And Evil[ as translated by Helen Zimmern and made available by The Project Guttenberg over at http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4363/4363-h/4363-h.htm]
:

Reply
#33
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
All you need to know about Dennett is that he thinks he's a zombie.
Reply
#34
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
(July 13, 2015 at 3:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: All you need to know about Dennett is that he thinks he's a zombie.

Christians think a jewish zombie magically rose from the dead and will save them for all eternity as long as they believe in him. What's worse?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

Reply
#35
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
(July 13, 2015 at 3:23 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: All you need to know about Dennett is that he thinks he's a zombie.
All you need to know about ChadWooters is that he hasn't read, or understood, Dennett.
Quote:When philosophers claim that zombies are conceivable, they invariably underestimate the task of conception (or imagination), and end up imagining something that violates their own definition. - Consciousness Explained

How would I evaluate the "Four Horsemen"?
In terms of oratory, greatest to least: Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, Dennett.
Literary skill: Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens, Harris.
Level of obnoxiousness: Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Dennett*

*Had to switch Hitchens and Dennett due to Hitchens utterly idiotic support of Bush-Cheney -Obama's "War on Terror"
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Reply
#36
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
In terms of originality of thought, wit and style and importance and contribution to the secular cause: Harris. Nobody else is even in the same league. And reprising the roles of his aides-de-camp are, de facto, a merry biologist, a contrarian journalist and a rugged philosopher who all showed up late to the party.
There, fixed it for you.
Reply
#37
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
(July 13, 2015 at 3:50 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote: In terms of originality of thought, wit and style and importance and contribution to the secular cause: Harris. Nobody else is even in the same league. And reprising the roles of his aides-de-camp are, de facto, a merry biologist, a contrarian journalist and a rugged philosopher who all showed up late to the party.
There, fixed it for you.
Hahaha. I wouldn't attribute prominence to Harris in any of those categories, except maybe credit him with ushering in the neo-atheist "movement." But nobody in the same league? What, are you a Harris fanboy or something? Dawkins and Hitches are/were far more witty, though I suppose it partially boils down to taste... but originality of thought? What original contribution has Harris made?
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Reply
#38
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
(July 13, 2015 at 2:49 pm)excitedpenguin Wrote:
(July 13, 2015 at 1:55 pm)Pizza Wrote: Try Hume, you amateur.

Arguably, Freud was greatly influenced by Nietzsche. He is considered by some as his heir, in certain ways. He[Freud] definitely admired the man and his thinking. This is why I brought him up.

Between Hume and Nietzsche, on the other hand, there is no such relationship to be found, though there are certain similarities between the two of them upon approaching some topics. At least some would have you believe so - I do not necessarily agree with this point of view.

Here's what Nietzsche makes of your prescious Hume and his kind of philosophy , in his Beyond Good And Evil[ as translated by Helen Zimmern and made available by The Project Guttenberg over at http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4363/4363-h/4363-h.htm]
:

Hume actually makes arguments as where Nietzsche just rants and insults people he doesn't like.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot

We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
Reply
#39
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
Typical of mediocre minds. What else can I say?
Reply
#40
RE: "The Four Horsemen"
(July 13, 2015 at 2:48 pm)Dystopia Wrote: I've been thinking about reading more Nietzsche for a long time but his mustache is a huge turn off.
You must read The Anti-Christ. It is probably my favorite polemic.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Team Four Star (Dragon Ball Z) The_Flying_Skeptic 0 3503 May 30, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Last Post: The_Flying_Skeptic



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)