Life Is Short; Have an Affair

[MTL]

Having said all that,

I am not a big proponent of the idea of marriage to begin with.

I love the idea of Happily Ever After and the White Picket Fence as much as anyone else,
but much like Jesus and Santa Claus, I just don't have any real faith in it.

I figure people cheat. 

If you cheat, I break up with you.  It's that simple. 

I don't hate you, I just figure you weren't happy with me.

So I end it, and wish you God Speed....so to speak.

[rexbeccarox]

I get what you're saying, MTL, except murder is illegal; adultery isn't. Sure, it facilitates divorce, but I don't think accomplices to divorce can be legislated against... unless you're privy to something I'm not?

[Pyrrho]

Having said all that,

I am not a big proponent of the idea of marriage to begin with.

I love the idea of Happily Ever After and the White Picket Fence as much as anyone else,
but much like Jesus and Santa Claus, I just don't have any real faith in it.

I figure people cheat. 

...

The thing is, not everyone cheats.  I have been married over 20 years, and I have never cheated on my wife.  I have not really wanted to.  Since I am an atheist, it isn't that I am worried about god smiting me or anything like that.  I don't want to be the sort of person who cheats, and I also really like being with my wife and don't want to mess that up for some stupid fling.  It is a question of how I want to live my life and the sort of person I want to be. 

This is not to say that everyone should get married.  For many people, it is one of the worst decisions of their lives.  But it is what I wanted, and still want.

I was also very careful in my selection of spouse.  We became the best of friends before we were married, and we still are the best of friends.  I very much expect to be with her for life.  Since I am older and men tend to die younger anyway, it is likely that I will die first. And that suits me very well, though whenever I mention it to my wife, she is less than pleased about it.  We are very happy together.

[drfuzzy]

I'm torn in my responses to the Ashley Madison leak.  I'm positively gleeful over Josh Duggar and all of the hypocritical Xtians that got outed.  That needs to happen more often.  The puritanical part of me thinks that all cheaters need to be caught.

The other side of the issue is, though, that gays and lesbians who were on Ashley Madison could lose jobs, housing, families, or even face violence.  And some married women who were outed will almost certainly face physical abuse.  The punishment will be non-existent in some cases and way too extreme in others.

[vorlon13]

I don't know about Lesbians, but the number of gay males on AM would be tiny compared to Craigslist and Rentboi, and about 25 other ways.

[MTL]

Having said all that,

I am not a big proponent of the idea of marriage to begin with.

I love the idea of Happily Ever After and the White Picket Fence as much as anyone else,
but much like Jesus and Santa Claus, I just don't have any real faith in it.

I figure people cheat. 

...

The thing is, not everyone cheats.  I have been married over 20 years, and I have never cheated on my wife.  I have not really wanted to.  Since I am an atheist, it isn't that I am worried about god smiting me or anything like that.  I don't want to be the sort of person who cheats, and I also really like being with my wife and don't want to mess that up for some stupid fling.  It is a question of how I want to live my life and the sort of person I want to be. 

This is not to say that everyone should get married.  For many people, it is one of the worst decisions of their lives.  But it is what I wanted, and still want.

I was also very careful in my selection of spouse.  We became the best of friends before we were married, and we still are the best of friends.  I very much expect to be with her for life.  Since I am older and men tend to die younger anyway, it is likely that I will die first. And that suits me very well, though whenever I mention it to my wife, she is less than pleased about it.  We are very happy together.

By no means do I think all men cheat,
but I think humans are naturally not inclined to monogamy,
and I don't feel good about the odds of landing myself a guy with the same mindset as yourself.

[T.J.]

What do you guys think of a site like AM, and how do you feel about the details of their hack?

I think it's a site full of cunts, ran by cunts, who were hacked by a bunch of cunts.

tl;dr: everyone's a cunt.

[Pyrrho]

The thing is, not everyone cheats.  I have been married over 20 years, and I have never cheated on my wife.  I have not really wanted to.  Since I am an atheist, it isn't that I am worried about god smiting me or anything like that.  I don't want to be the sort of person who cheats, and I also really like being with my wife and don't want to mess that up for some stupid fling.  It is a question of how I want to live my life and the sort of person I want to be. 

This is not to say that everyone should get married.  For many people, it is one of the worst decisions of their lives.  But it is what I wanted, and still want.

I was also very careful in my selection of spouse.  We became the best of friends before we were married, and we still are the best of friends.  I very much expect to be with her for life.  Since I am older and men tend to die younger anyway, it is likely that I will die first. And that suits me very well, though whenever I mention it to my wife, she is less than pleased about it.  We are very happy together.

By no means do I think all men cheat,
but I think humans are naturally not inclined to monogamy,
and I don't feel good about the odds of landing myself a guy with the same mindset as yourself.

There are several things that one can do, though I cannot say that I am common.  Very rarely has anyone ever accused me of being like everyone else.  Still, you can meet people at atheist groups, and take your time in getting to know people.  Think about the person in a platonic way first; if you would not like him if he were a woman, move on to someone else.  A person is a person more than a person is a man or a woman.  Someone who is unlikable is unlikeable either way.  (And for those interested in trivia, yes, the two spellings are on purpose, and yes, both are correct.  Look them up.)  Take your time and do not rush into any decisions.  Being honest and fairly direct (while still being polite) is a good way of dealing with prospective partners.  Spend time with him with other people, and without other people.  See how he interacts with others.  With multiple kinds of situations, you can get more information about him than if your interaction with him is always in the same sorts of situations.

If he is dishonest, move on.  You cannot trust him, and you will not magically make a bad man good.

All of this will be much, much easier if you are a good judge of character.  If not, then you will need to proceed much more slowly.  If you have any friends who are good judges of character, then introduce the guy to your friend(s) and then, later on, ask your friend(s) what he/she/they thinks about him.  When doing that, you need to be reasonable and not ask them to tell you what you want to hear; ask for the truth and be grateful if you get the truth, even if it is not what you want to hear.  If you are not reasonable on that sort of thing, then you should expect that people will lie to you as a way of dealing with you, as that would be necessary for them to deal with you.

Listen to what he says, and watch what he does.  Do his actions fit with his words?  If not, move on, he is a liar.

Judging from my admittedly superficial meetings with Canadians, your chances of finding someone good are better than if you were an American.  I found the French Canadians I met in Montreal falling into two categories:  They either were displeased to encounter yet another damn native speaker of English, or they were quite charming.  Of course, that is initial meeting, and not the more substantial qualities you seek.  And you may well be in some other part of Canada than Quebec.  I have a favorable impression of the English speaking Canadians, too.  Though I have never married one and do not know about them for marriage and such things.  But if my wife met an untimely end, I might well decide to spend some time in Montreal to either meet someone or just drink some good wine and eat some great baguettes and fantastic vegan pâté and amazing Lucques olives from France.  Just thinking about the baguettes, pâté, olives, and wine makes me want to go back.  And the charming people.  I had a great time visiting Montreal, in case you cannot tell from these comments that are going off topic.

Take your time and get to know someone before making any kind of commitment.  In my case, I am a particularly good judge of character (in person; I make no claims about people online).  So in my case, I knew I wanted to marry my wife before she knew she wanted to marry me.  When I first told her that I loved her, she did not believe me (though she did not tell me that at the time; she told me much later).  If you are not a good judge of character, be very slow to decide anything important.  Of course, all decisions in life are made with less than perfect certainty, but important decisions are made with something close to certainty, if one has the time for it.  And in this sort of case, one does have a bit of time.

Spend time talking about what the two of you want out of life.  It will not do if one of you wants children and the other does not, even if otherwise you would be a perfect match, as that is not something that one can compromise on.  You need to be truthful about these things to avoid problems.  And that means you need to know what you want, as otherwise you will not be able to say what it is that you want.  Don't waste your time on a known lost cause; drop him and move on.  Be slow to start something with someone, because if you meet someone good while you are with someone bad, the good one may well meet someone else while you are entangled with the bad one.

[rexbeccarox]

Excellent advice, Pyrrho.

[MTL]

By no means do I think all men cheat,
but I think humans are naturally not inclined to monogamy,
and I don't feel good about the odds of landing myself a guy with the same mindset as yourself.

There are several things that one can do, though I cannot say that I am common.  Very rarely has anyone ever accused me of being like everyone else.  Still, you can meet people at atheist groups, and take your time in getting to know people.  Think about the person in a platonic way first; if you would not like him if he were a woman, move on to someone else.  A person is a person more than a person is a man or a woman.  Someone who is unlikable is unlikeable either way.  (And for those interested in trivia, yes, the two spellings are on purpose, and yes, both are correct.  Look them up.)  Take your time and do not rush into any decisions.  Being honest and fairly direct (while still being polite) is a good way of dealing with prospective partners.  Spend time with him with other people, and without other people.  See how he interacts with others.  With multiple kinds of situations, you can get more information about him than if your interaction with him is always in the same sorts of situations.

If he is dishonest, move on.  You cannot trust him, and you will not magically make a bad man good.

All of this will be much, much easier if you are a good judge of character.  If not, then you will need to proceed much more slowly.  If you have any friends who are good judges of character, then introduce the guy to your friend(s) and then, later on, ask your friend(s) what he/she/they thinks about him.  When doing that, you need to be reasonable and not ask them to tell you what you want to hear; ask for the truth and be grateful if you get the truth, even if it is not what you want to hear.  If you are not reasonable on that sort of thing, then you should expect that people will lie to you as a way of dealing with you, as that would be necessary for them to deal with you.

Listen to what he says, and watch what he does.  Do his actions fit with his words?  If not, move on, he is a liar.

Judging from my admittedly superficial meetings with Canadians, your chances of finding someone good are better than if you were an American.  I found the French Canadians I met in Montreal falling into two categories:  They either were displeased to encounter yet another damn native speaker of English, or they were quite charming.  Of course, that is initial meeting, and not the more substantial qualities you seek.  And you may well be in some other part of Canada than Quebec.  I have a favorable impression of the English speaking Canadians, too.  Though I have never married one and do not know about them for marriage and such things.  But if my wife met an untimely end, I might well decide to spend some time in Montreal to either meet someone or just drink some good wine and eat some great baguettes and fantastic vegan pâté and amazing Lucques olives from France.  Just thinking about the baguettes, pâté, olives, and wine makes me want to go back.  And the charming people.  I had a great time visiting Montreal, in case you cannot tell from these comments that are going off topic.

Take your time and get to know someone before making any kind of commitment.  In my case, I am a particularly good judge of character (in person; I make no claims about people online).  So in my case, I knew I wanted to marry my wife before she knew she wanted to marry me.  When I first told her that I loved her, she did not believe me (though she did not tell me that at the time; she told me much later).  If you are not a good judge of character, be very slow to decide anything important.  Of course, all decisions in life are made with less than perfect certainty, but important decisions are made with something close to certainty, if one has the time for it.  And in this sort of case, one does have a bit of time.

Spend time talking about what the two of you want out of life.  It will not do if one of you wants children and the other does not, even if otherwise you would be a perfect match, as that is not something that one can compromise on.  You need to be truthful about these things to avoid problems.  And that means you need to know what you want, as otherwise you will not be able to say what it is that you want.  Don't waste your time on a known lost cause; drop him and move on.  Be slow to start something with someone, because if you meet someone good while you are with someone bad, the good one may well meet someone else while you are entangled with the bad one.

Thank you for your pithy advice, Pyrrho.

I agree with everything you said, and it is much the same advice that I would give someone else.