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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 2:58 pm
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2015 at 3:01 pm by ktrap.)
Quote: Nope
Did those four words change the meaning of your post? If so, call out that individual atheist. Unless Pyrrho was the one who misquoted you then why do something to him that you disliked having done to you?
Really, where did I misquote Pyrrho, I made a comment regarding that it is not consistent to call someone an atheist who does not believe in A and believes in B when both lack evidence. If Pyrrho wanted clarification then he can ask for it, instead of being a jerk.
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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 3:31 pm
(August 3, 2015 at 2:30 pm)robvalue Wrote: When we die, all our bits break up. What is left to "live on"? The entirely undemonstrated soul/spirit of which there is no evidence whatsoever.
Our bits live on in as much as they will be recycled and will probably end up as parts of other life forms. That's as good as it gets, and you know, I'm very happy with that.
Anything else is not only speculation, but requires ignoring all available evidence to the contrary.
Our special invisible bits?
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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 3:43 pm
(August 3, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Shuffle Wrote: I am about to say something that might scared a few people:
I DON'T BELIEVE IN AN AFTERLIFE
AWESOME !!! become NOTHING and be FORGOTTEN
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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 3:45 pm
I'm starting to understand why theists frustrate you guys on this board.....
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 4:00 pm
(August 3, 2015 at 3:43 pm)ktrap Wrote: (August 3, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Shuffle Wrote: I am about to say something that might scared a few people:
I DON'T BELIEVE IN AN AFTERLIFE
AWESOME !!! become NOTHING and be FORGOTTEN
That's what we call an argument from emotion. Just because it is pleasant to think there's an afterlife where you meet your family and live forever(which I decidedly don't find pleasant, eternity is a horrifying concept), it doesn't make it TRUE. It has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on that.
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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 4:01 pm
(August 3, 2015 at 2:30 pm)robvalue Wrote: When we die, all our bits break up. What is left to "live on"? The entirely undemonstrated soul/spirit of which there is no evidence whatsoever.
Our bits live on in as much as they will be recycled and will probably end up as parts of other life forms. That's as good as it gets, and you know, I'm very happy with that.
Anything else is not only speculation, but requires ignoring all available evidence to the contrary.
It is more than just that there is no evidence of an immaterial soul or mind; it is, as I stated previously, that we have evidence that the mind is nothing more than the processes of the brain. If your mind were something immaterial, how could alcohol get your mind drunk? Why is it that diseases of the brain damage the mind? Really, it is proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the mind is just brain activity and nothing more. Consequently, it is proven beyond all reasonable doubt that you (as a mind) cease to exist when your brain stops its activity.
That many people don't accept this just means that many people are prejudiced agains the idea and prefer to believe superstitious twaddle instead of basing their beliefs on the best available evidence. That they wish they were immortal and so many believe it is just wishful thinking rather than a reasonable belief.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 4:03 pm
(August 3, 2015 at 2:52 pm)Shuffle Wrote: (August 3, 2015 at 2:37 pm)ktrap Wrote: How will you know that someone will remember you, after you die? Are you trying to tell me that after you die, you will know that some one dug your grave. How is that possible that you will know that? Therefore, after you die, POOF!!! you are NOTHING and will be FORGOTTEN. Unless you believe that you continue your journey after death and realize there is God behind all this creation. But that is hard for atheist, right? There is that "lack of evidence" problem. No issues at all. God gives free will for you to believe in whatever you want, and since you refuse to believe in God and afterlife, well then you become "NOTHING" and everyone who has obtain a divine state will just "FORGET" that you even existed. Who cares if people on earth remember you? You won't be around (after death) to know it anyway. Wow. That is a pretty selfish way to look at it. I don't care if I know whether or not memories of me carry on. The possibility that it will is what keeps me alive. People on earth are the only people I care about. The only people I know exist. While you devote your life dreaming about fantasizes, I will be here in the real world. While you care about how people that don't even exist anymore will remember you, I will care about how people that DO exist care about me. Nothing selfish about it. What are you trying to say that I am not human and don't have a family or don't belong to the greater good for mankind?? Think whatever you want. Your freedom and your choice. I am not convincing you of anything. What you know is limited to your lifespan. Sure, care about people on earth, I don't know anyone (I hope) who would argue about that. What possibility is there that your memories will continue after death. ZERO !!! You don't care to know it will or will not anyway. How long are you going to be in the real world? Forever? Don't believe in God, then what are expecting to happen?
"Become NOTHING and Be FORGOTTEN". No worries.
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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 5:08 pm
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2015 at 5:10 pm by Fidel_Castronaut.)
(August 3, 2015 at 12:20 pm)ktrap Wrote: Quote:Pandæmonium
And what about the 'I don't know' conclusion holds less validity and intellectual honesty to the presumption of knowledge without evidence to you?
Why is saying 'I don't know' ruled out when someone rejects a claim (yours) about something that definitely happens following death but 'ergo nothing' is immediately viewed as the default?
I don't believe in any deity. Am I thus doomed to believe that 'nothing' happens as a result? Is my actual answer of "I don't know" ruled out?
Also, Redbeard didn't actually say 'nothing happens', as evidenced by the crucial 'what if' at the beginning of the quote.
A retraction of your claim that Shuffle believes nothing happens would also be welcome as there is no evidential basis for holding the idea that that position is his.
I have no issue to the "I don't know" answer. However, the reasoning applied by atheist to say God does not exist due to lack of evidence should also be applied to the afterlife.
Scenario A
1) God does not exist due to lack of evidence
2) Nothing happens after I die due to lack of evidence
Scenario B
1) I don't know if God exists
2) I don't know what happens after I die
Scenario C
1) God does not exist due to lack of evidence
2) I don't know what happens after I die
Scenario A & B is consistent, Scenario C is not consistent. That is all I am saying. If in your own mind Scenario C is acceptable then fine with me, but I would not consider that consistent reasoning from an Atheist.
One can reject an unevidenced positive claim but not reject the overarching concept. For example, an abrahamic christian god can be rejected (to date) owing to the self-refuting and obvious anthropomorphic traits it contains. This is an aside from the inability to meet the basic minimum requirement for making me think there might be something to said claim, ie, something testable, verifiable and repeatable. But that doesn't therefore mean that *no god* exists, as I haven't seen or heard every god claim that has ever been (or will ever be) proposed.
The problem with your scenario C is that it automatically assumes only one God, most likely *yours*. If that's true, I can say *your* God does not exist due to lack of evidence (to lend weight to your positive claims) and maintain my stance in 2.
You are still strawmanning every other poster on this thread by presuming what they believe rather than simply listening to what they are saying. If someone says they don't know what happens to them when they die but they don't believe in an afterlife, then who are you to say that equates to "ergo nothing"? If we're bound only by our imagination, then an almost infinite number of things might happen to us when we die. The only logically consistent statement in lieu of evidence being presented is to admit we don't know, and may probably never know.
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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 5:10 pm
(August 3, 2015 at 4:03 pm)ktrap Wrote: Nothing selfish about it. What are you trying to say that I am not human and don't have a family or don't belong to the greater good for mankind?? Think whatever you want. Your freedom and your choice. I am not convincing you of anything. What you know is limited to your lifespan. Sure, care about people on earth, I don't know anyone (I hope) who would argue about that. What possibility is there that your memories will continue after death. ZERO !!! You don't care to know it will or will not anyway. How long are you going to be in the real world? Forever? Don't believe in God, then what are expecting to happen?
"Become NOTHING and Be FORGOTTEN". No worries. I have now reached the conclusion that you MUST be a poe. There is no other option. You are the most deluded person I have ever talked to. I will no longer respond to you.
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RE: Am I Going To Hell?
August 3, 2015 at 9:16 pm
(August 3, 2015 at 5:08 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: (August 3, 2015 at 12:20 pm)ktrap Wrote: I have no issue to the "I don't know" answer. However, the reasoning applied by atheist to say God does not exist due to lack of evidence should also be applied to the afterlife.
Scenario A
1) God does not exist due to lack of evidence
2) Nothing happens after I die due to lack of evidence
Scenario B
1) I don't know if God exists
2) I don't know what happens after I die
Scenario C
1) God does not exist due to lack of evidence
2) I don't know what happens after I die
Scenario A & B is consistent, Scenario C is not consistent. That is all I am saying. If in your own mind Scenario C is acceptable then fine with me, but I would not consider that consistent reasoning from an Atheist.
One can reject an unevidenced positive claim but not reject the overarching concept. For example, an abrahamic christian god can be rejected (to date) owing to the self-refuting and obvious anthropomorphic traits it contains. This is an aside from the inability to meet the basic minimum requirement for making me think there might be something to said claim, ie, something testable, verifiable and repeatable. But that doesn't therefore mean that *no god* exists, as I haven't seen or heard every god claim that has ever been (or will ever be) proposed.
The problem with your scenario C is that it automatically assumes only one God, most likely *yours*. If that's true, I can say *your* God does not exist due to lack of evidence (to lend weight to your positive claims) and maintain my stance in 2.
You are still strawmanning every other poster on this thread by presuming what they believe rather than simply listening to what they are saying. If someone says they don't know what happens to them when they die but they don't believe in an afterlife, then who are you to say that equates to "ergo nothing"? If we're bound only by our imagination, then an almost infinite number of things might happen to us when we die. The only logically consistent statement in lieu of evidence being presented is to admit we don't know, and may probably never know.
In all the scenarios you free to put "a God" instead of "my God" or "your God". God was a term I used, but did not mean to have it interpreted as "my God". Sorry I don't think God in plural terms.
"we don't know and may probably never know" is not a convincing argument for not trying !!!!
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