Advance to help Humanity

[Pyrrho]

Viruses are not pharmaceuticals, but we need not worry about that.  Being nice is important because otherwise murderers and other bad people will just be made more effectively bad by improving their intelligence and reasonableness.  Intelligence gives someone more possibilities, and in the case of a bad person, that is a bad thing.  A bad person can fuck you over more effectively if he is intelligent than if he is too stupid to be able to figure out how to fuck you over so effectively.

I mistook what you initially said. I corrected myself in the meanwhile though. But I see you still didn't get the point about niceness that I'm making. Not being nice doesn't equal being a bad person and certainly not a murderer. It's this kind of simple-minded thinking that I despise, more than anything else, sorry to say. I'll try and be reasonable with you though. Please explain to me how come you thought you told me anything new here, and why are you so fast to change the subject or misunderstand what I'm actually talking about? Please address what it is that you mean by niceness.

I do not mean anything out of the ordinary for the word "nice":

nice 1
...
1.1(Of a person) good-natured; kind

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...ctCode=all


If someone is nice, the person is not a murderer, because murder is not nice.  Of course, someone can be not nice without being a murderer.  But I want more than just that people refrain from killing each other.  If that was all I wanted, I would have stated that I wanted people to not be murderers.

"Nice" entails that people not be cruel to each other.  And, of course, it entails more than just that.  And I want more than just that, which is why I did not say that I simply wanted people to not be cruel.

I want people to be more than just not bad.  If that is all I wanted, I would have stated that I wanted people to not be bad.  But I want more.  I want them to be good.  "Good," though, is more ambiguous than "nice," and you have had enough trouble with "nice."

[Excited Penguin]

We can't all be nice all the time. Nice is relative, from different points of view. Some person might say child abuse and genital mutilation is nice, some might not. So you still haven't expressed anything, really, by that initial statement.

Now intelligent/reasonable, is easier to work with, since it's not a matter of morality. But your moral thinking, on the other hand, is pretty difficult to understand. I think I speak for the both of us though, that it would suffice that people weren't violent towards each other - that's all we would ask of them, concerning niceness, goodness, and all else. Anything else is not so much an obligation we have towards each other as something we could do if we wanted - like helping one another. At least that's my view. Tell me if it differs from yours and how, if you wish.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

EP, being smart doesn't mean one has to be brutally honest with each other,and in more that often instances,rude.We are not computers,we are humans with emotions.Being smart is about understanding the human nature and adapting so as to cause minimal conflict and lead a pleasant life.

Pyrrho, In my experience I'll take a smart bad person over a dumb bad person any day.Because smart is predictable whereas a dim person is very unpredictable and hence extremely dangerous.
Also,your idea about making everyone the of the same intelligence,compassionate,reasonable is a terrible idea.I'll tell you why,intelligent people like to work with what is the most complex to work with,in our case it would be the universe.So all the people of earth would want to be Physicists.
What about the service sectors?What about the banking sector?
Now suppose,since people were so smart that they automated the processes of these other sectors using robots.Can you imagine what would happen to the salary of the huge surplus of Physicists?Their value would go down and their salary too.Their intelligence wouldn't be celebrated and they would feel under appreciated for their efforts.So lets say some of them quit their job to go work in diners which aren't automated.Imagine an extremely intelligent individual working in a diner can you imagine the depression and unsatisfaction he'd feel?
There is a reason why every single one of us are different with different interests and so on.It is so that there could be a perfect balance.Some not particularly bright lights don't mind working tedious tasks,they might actually find happiness in it.While some bright bulbs constantly look for new things and find repetitive tasks tedious.
In a world where intelligence,compassion,reasonability etc are distributed uniformly,these values wouldn't exist anymore.Because it is necessary that an idiot exists so that a smart person can exist,and it is essential that an asshole exist so that a compassionate person can exist.

[Excited Penguin]

EP, being smart doesn't mean one has to be brutally honest with each other,and in more that often instances,rude.We are not computers,we are humans with emotions.Being smart is about understanding the human nature and adapting so as to cause minimal conflict and lead a pleasant life.

Pyrrho, In my experience I'll take a smart bad person over a dumb bad person any day.Because smart is predictable whereas a dim person is very unpredictable and hence extremely dangerous.
Also,your idea about making everyone the of the same intelligence,compassionate,reasonable is a terrible idea.I'll tell you why,intelligent people like to work with what is the most complex to work with,in our case it would be the universe.So all the people of earth would want to be Physicists.
What about the service sectors?What about the banking sector?
Now suppose,since people were so smart that they automated the processes of these other sectors using robots.Can you imagine what would happen to the salary of the huge surplus of Physicists?Their value would go down and their salary too.Their intelligence wouldn't be celebrated and they would feel under appreciated for their efforts.So lets say some of them quit their job to go work in diners which aren't automated.Imagine an extremely intelligent individual working in a diner can you imagine the depression and unsatisfaction he'd feel?
There is a reason why every single one of us are different with different interests and so on.It is so that there could be a perfect balance.Some not particularly bright lights don't mind working tedious tasks,they might actually find happiness in it.While some bright bulbs constantly look for new things and find repetitive tasks tedious.
In a world where intelligence,compassion,reasonability etc are distributed uniformly,these values wouldn't exist anymore.Because it is necessary that an idiot exists so that a smart person can exist,and it is essential that an asshole exist so that a compassionate person can exist.

Your whole premise that there's an apriori balance to it all fails instantaneously. The universe is not organized in any way, only we view it as such - because that's how our brains work, we see patterns everywhere.

There is no problem with everyone being the same. If tomorrow everyone woke up with the same intellectual capacity, ideas and imaginations of the best of us, the world would be a far better place for it - there's no denying that. Humanity wouldn't just stop at being uniform. This is absurd. Just as we can't ever solve all of our problems, since there will always be new dillemas to confront, there won't ever be like-minded inviduals forever, not even if you somehow managed to get them to that point for a single moment - their paths would necessarily diverge again, since there are different experieces and all that.

The problems quoted by you are so superficial as to be laughable. Your whole worldview is too simple-minded for me to further address without doing it in jest.

[ignoramus]

Christianity is full on pro recycling!
The same bullshit's been going around and around for 2,000 years!

You win, flawless victory!

I was thinking. Say scientists create a pill which lets you live a lot longer, or even forever. Would Christians take the pill? Would they put off going to heaven, perhaps completely? It would sure be an interesting test of faith to see if someone wants to take their chances and die regardless.

Good point Rob.
I don't think even 1 Christian will risk the afterlife in this case.
You know how it's impossible to slowly walk into a wall? You survival instincts won't let you (try it)
I think the same innate survival instincts will override the indoctrination and not let you risk dying earlier than possible...

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

EP, being smart doesn't mean one has to be brutally honest with each other,and in more that often instances,rude.We are not computers,we are humans with emotions.Being smart is about understanding the human nature and adapting so as to cause minimal conflict and lead a pleasant life.

Pyrrho, In my experience I'll take a smart bad person over a dumb bad person any day.Because smart is predictable whereas a dim person is very unpredictable and hence extremely dangerous.
Also,your idea about making everyone the of the same intelligence,compassionate,reasonable is a terrible idea.I'll tell you why,intelligent people like to work with what is the most complex to work with,in our case it would be the universe.So all the people of earth would want to be Physicists.
What about the service sectors?What about the banking sector?
Now suppose,since people were so smart that they automated the processes of these other sectors using robots.Can you imagine what would happen to the salary of the huge surplus of Physicists?Their value would go down and their salary too.Their intelligence wouldn't be celebrated and they would feel under appreciated for their efforts.So lets say some of them quit their job to go work in diners which aren't automated.Imagine an extremely intelligent individual working in a diner can you imagine the depression and unsatisfaction he'd feel?
There is a reason why every single one of us are different with different interests and so on.It is so that there could be a perfect balance.Some not particularly bright lights don't mind working tedious tasks,they might actually find happiness in it.While some bright bulbs constantly look for new things and find repetitive tasks tedious.
In a world where intelligence,compassion,reasonability etc are distributed uniformly,these values wouldn't exist anymore.Because it is necessary that an idiot exists so that a smart person can exist,and it is essential that an asshole exist so that a compassionate person can exist.

Your whole premise that there's an apriori balance to it all fails instantaneously. The universe is not organized in any way, only we view it as such - because that's how our brains work, we see patterns everywhere.

There is no problem with everyone being the same. If tomorrow everyone woke up with the same intellectual capacity, ideas and imaginations of the best of us, the world would be a far better place for it - there's no denying that. Humanity wouldn't just stop at being uniform. This is absurd. Just as we can't ever solve all of our problems, since there will always be new dillemas to confront, there won't ever be like-minded inviduals forever, not even if you somehow managed to get them to that point for a single moment - their paths would necessarily diverge again, since there are different experieces and all that.

The problems quoted by you are so superficial as to be laughable. Your whole worldview is too simple-minded for me to further address without doing it in jest.

1.There are lots of problems if everyone were the same.

2.If tomorrow everyone woke up with the same intellectual capacity, ideas and imaginations of the best of us, the world wouldn't be a far better place for it.It would be chaotic at best.

Although,I agree for all the people on earth to have their basic need satisfied i'd never agree with everyone having human qualities uniformly distributed.

[Excited Penguin]

Your whole premise that there's an apriori balance to it all fails instantaneously. The universe is not organized in any way, only we view it as such - because that's how our brains work, we see patterns everywhere.

There is no problem with everyone being the same. If tomorrow everyone woke up with the same intellectual capacity, ideas and imaginations of the best of us, the world would be a far better place for it - there's no denying that. Humanity wouldn't just stop at being uniform. This is absurd. Just as we can't ever solve all of our problems, since there will always be new dillemas to confront, there won't ever be like-minded inviduals forever, not even if you somehow managed to get them to that point for a single moment - their paths would necessarily diverge again, since there are different experieces and all that.

The problems quoted by you are so superficial as to be laughable. Your whole worldview is too simple-minded for me to further address without doing it in jest.

1.There are lots of problems if everyone were the same.

2.If tomorrow everyone woke up with the same intellectual capacity, ideas and imaginations of the best of us, the world wouldn't be a far better place for it.It would be chaotic at best.

Although,I agree for all the people on earth to have their basic need satisfied i'd never agree with everyone having human qualities uniformly distributed.

That's because you have an elitist outlook. In reality, it already is like what I described, it's just that it's more subtle than that.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

---

1.There are lots of problems if everyone were the same.

2.If tomorrow everyone woke up with the same intellectual capacity, ideas and imaginations of the best of us, the world wouldn't be a far better place for it.It would be chaotic at best.

Although,I agree for all the people on earth to have their basic need satisfied i'd never agree with everyone having human qualities uniformly distributed.

---

That's because you have an elitist outlook. In reality, it already is like what I described, it's just that it's more subtle than that.

Look at this.


Now look at this.


Finally,look at this.



One special thing about humans is that we are constantly improving.There is no limit to our improvement.We constantly raise the bar.
In a world where everyone was created equal people would loose motivation and get depressed. 
I for one value my ability to program better than all my peers.It is one of the reason's why I've found meaning in my life.If one day everybody were to be just like me i'd be like What the fuck? now everyone can do it.So it isn't special anymore.


In a world where everyone were created equal,inequality would be very prevalent.
I'll tell you why,suppose you want to go to a college,you write the entrance exams,since everyone is created equal most of you will get equal marks.So how does the management decide who to take into the college and who to not take into the college?
There would arise a need for a different variety of categorization.But since everybody is created equal a categorization would be impossible.The only difference between different individuals would be their experience.But since everyone is created equal everyone would understand the same things from same experiences.Since experiences although not identical are similar(you can figure that out for yourself,you can't expect me to explain everything  )people's knowledge derived from experience would also be same.
As you can see.The world wouldn't work.It would break down into chaos.
World wouldn't be "fair".The only form of categorization would be random selection,which is unfair.Imagine you study day and night for your entrance exams and you get very high marks(just like everybody else)but you doesn't get the opportunity to get into the college because the management chooses who to take into the college and who to reject based on random selection?

[Excited Penguin]

In a world where everyone was created equal people would loose motivation and get depressed.

How do you reach that conclusion exactly? Besides, I'm much more interested in striving for equality than in creating it from the offset. But as I have already mentioned, this would naturally be an impossible state of affairs to hold on to for any amount of time. To strive for it and to wish it were absolutely so all of the time - those are extremely different things. You seem to always be taking God's POV whence I am merely talking the mortal's one, perhaps that's why you're so unabashedly misconstruing what I'm actually saying. 

As you can see.The world wouldn't work.It would break down into chaos.

No, I don't see that, and neither do you, apparently. You didn't actually provide any reason for your unwaranted conclusion, you just forced it down my throat out of the blue.

But this is beside the point. As I already mentioned and alluded at, we're not Gods, also it's reasonable to say that there is no being with godlike powers since we don't know of such a being as yet, so --- we can't assume that we'll ever make it so that everyone's either created equal or suddenly becomes equal, in any way you choose to understand the word. Of course, as you already pointed out, I think, the concept of equality itself wouldn't make sense anymore but why linger on it? How could there be chaos in perfect order -- that's exactly what you yourself described--? But, again, I'm getting sidetracked here. We can't hope to achieve such a drastic level of change, at least not realistically and reliably in the world we currently inhabit. We can only hope to move towards that goal - but that's all. That's where the dream ends -- in it's hopeful application. Why jump to such unnerving conclusions as you did? Certainly, I wasn't talking about such extremes, not in the least.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

In a world where everyone was created equal people would loose motivation and get depressed.

How do you reach that conclusion exactly? Besides, I'm much more interested in striving for equality than in creating it from the offset. But as I have already mentioned, this would naturally be an impossible state of affairs to hold on to for any amount of time. To strive for it and to wish it were absolutely so all of the time - those are extremely different things. You seem to always be taking God's POV whence I am merely talking the mortal's one, perhaps that's why you're so unabashedly misconstruing what I'm actually saying. 

As you can see.The world wouldn't work.It would break down into chaos.

No, I don't see that, and neither do you, apparently. You didn't actually provide any reason for your unwaranted conclusion, you just forced it down my throat out of the blue.

But this is beside the point. As I already mentioned and alluded at, we're not Gods, also it's reasonable to say that there is no being with godlike powers since we don't know of such a being as yet, so --- we can't assume that we'll ever make it so that everyone's either created equal or suddenly becomes equal, in any way you choose to understand the word. Of course, as you already pointed out, I think, the concept of equality itself wouldn't make sense anymore but why linger on it? How could there be chaos in perfect order -- that's exactly what you yourself described--? But, again, I'm getting sidetracked here. We can't hope to achieve such a drastic level of change, at least not realistically and reliably in the world we currently inhabit. We can only hope to move towards that goal - but that's all. That's where the dream ends -- in it's hopeful application. Why jump to such unnerving conclusions as you did? Certainly, I wasn't talking about such extremes, not in the least.

1. Read my whole post carefully and understand it.
2. I see it very clearly.

I think your obsession with everyone being created equal is stemmed from an underlying inferiority complex.
Anyway,i'm done with you.