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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
August 31, 2015 at 6:22 am
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2015 at 6:35 am by Mudhammam.)
(August 27, 2015 at 7:01 am)Lucanus Wrote: This is a series of questions I always ask when people start talking about souls. I'd like to collect the local soul-believers' answers on this topic, but if you don't believe in souls, feel free to add more questions. 
Quote:What is a soul?
What is it made of?
Does it interact with the material world?
If it does, how can we measure its activity based on its interactions with the material world?
If it doesn't, what does it explain that can't be better explained by a materialist solution? 1. The self; the faculty through which apprehension of sense data forms experiences that cohere and possess meaning.
2. Nothing that can be defined beyond calling it abstract... abstract-stuff? ...Which leaves it as, if not more, peculiar as getting to the bottom of whatever it is this matter-stuff is made of... because it's abstract. And thinking about the abstract in the abstract is hard.
3. Yes, in that it renders the material world rational, beautiful, and good to itself.
4. It remains to be discovered if the tools of science and philosophy, developed by the successive toil of selves actuating thoughts, will ever be capable of granting knowledge in full.
5. What is matter? What is it made of? How does it interact with the abstract? If it does, how can we measure its activity based on - or vice versa, apart from - its interactions with the abstract? If it doesn't, why should anyone feel the urge to commit to a dogma which only allows matter - whatever that is - to exist?
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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
August 31, 2015 at 6:30 am
(August 30, 2015 at 11:41 pm)IATIA Wrote: Looks as if we have our replacement for Randy. Guess we will not miss him after all.
I think they're soul mates!
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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
August 31, 2015 at 6:32 am
What one idiot considers a soul, the intellect refers to as consciousness.
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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
August 31, 2015 at 7:08 am
(August 30, 2015 at 11:41 pm)IATIA Wrote: Looks as if we have our replacement for Randy. Guess we will not miss him after all.
Randys gone?
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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
August 31, 2015 at 7:30 am
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2015 at 7:31 am by comet.)
to me a soul would be like a "thought". Describe what a thought is, how it works, and why it works like that. There is your soul. And I am as certain of this soul as surely as I know what a thought is.
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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
August 31, 2015 at 8:37 am
(August 31, 2015 at 6:22 am)Nestor Wrote: (August 27, 2015 at 7:01 am)Lucanus Wrote: This is a series of questions I always ask when people start talking about souls. I'd like to collect the local soul-believers' answers on this topic, but if you don't believe in souls, feel free to add more questions. 1. The self; the faculty through which apprehension of sense data forms experiences that cohere and possess meaning.
2. Nothing that can be defined beyond calling it abstract... abstract-stuff? ...Which leaves it as, if not more, peculiar as getting to the bottom of whatever it is this matter-stuff is made of... because it's abstract. And thinking about the abstract in the abstract is hard.
3. Yes, in that it renders the material world rational, beautiful, and good to itself.
4. It remains to be discovered if the tools of science and philosophy, developed by the successive toil of selves actuating thoughts, will ever be capable of granting knowledge in full.
5. What is matter? What is it made of? How does it interact with the abstract? If it does, how can we measure its activity based on - or vice versa, apart from - its interactions with the abstract? If it doesn't, why should anyone feel the urge to commit to a dogma which only allows matter - whatever that is - to exist?
Makes sense and I kinda agree, except for the last point. Having a bit of a brain drain atm so I won't elaborate, but I think the distinction between matter and abstractions is pretty clear - in that the existence of matter is pretty self evident, even if we only define it axiomatically... I dunno lol, feel free to bash me
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Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.
Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.
Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
August 31, 2015 at 9:03 am
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2015 at 9:04 am by Mudhammam.)
(August 31, 2015 at 8:37 am)Lucanus Wrote: (August 31, 2015 at 6:22 am)Nestor Wrote: 1. The self; the faculty through which apprehension of sense data forms experiences that cohere and possess meaning.
2. Nothing that can be defined beyond calling it abstract... abstract-stuff? ...Which leaves it as, if not more, peculiar as getting to the bottom of whatever it is this matter-stuff is made of... because it's abstract. And thinking about the abstract in the abstract is hard.
3. Yes, in that it renders the material world rational, beautiful, and good to itself.
4. It remains to be discovered if the tools of science and philosophy, developed by the successive toil of selves actuating thoughts, will ever be capable of granting knowledge in full.
5. What is matter? What is it made of? How does it interact with the abstract? If it does, how can we measure its activity based on - or vice versa, apart from - its interactions with the abstract? If it doesn't, why should anyone feel the urge to commit to a dogma which only allows matter - whatever that is - to exist?
Makes sense and I kinda agree, except for the last point. Having a bit of a brain drain atm so I won't elaborate, but I think the distinction between matter and abstractions is pretty clear - in that the existence of matter is pretty self evident, even if we only define it axiomatically... I dunno lol, feel free to bash me No need to bash. I'm only playing devil's advocate. I would say that the existence of thoughts and objects which exist in a much different manner than those perceived to be external, i.e. the physical world, is self evident too though. Different versions of idealism would give consciousness and/or concepts precedent to whatever matter is, and while I don't think I'm quite there, there certainly are issues I don't think materialism adequately explains or accounts for.
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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
September 1, 2015 at 2:15 pm
(August 31, 2015 at 12:19 am)whyWhateverist the White Wrote: (August 30, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Ronkonkoma Wrote: yes but you said the personality forms before consciousness,
I don't think so. I can't imagine what personality has to do with anything.
(August 30, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Ronkonkoma Wrote: .. but they actually form simultaneously after birth. And the soul the way we understand it different from personality, its something inherent to a person's existence from conception on, so that's why I say it determines personhood. Will see the video and comment on it.
When I go to the bother of coming up with an alternative understanding of "soul" for the sake of finding common ground is not the time to come back with an unthinking blather of dogma. I reject all that on the face of it. Why? dogma is a good thing.
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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
September 1, 2015 at 2:22 pm
(September 1, 2015 at 2:15 pm)Ronkonkoma Wrote: Why? dogma is a good thing.
Wat
"Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics [sic]. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant.
Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.
Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.
Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
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RE: What the hell is a 'soul' anyway?
September 1, 2015 at 2:30 pm
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2015 at 2:51 pm by Ronkonkoma.)
(August 31, 2015 at 12:19 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: (August 30, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Ronkonkoma Wrote: yes but you said the personality forms before consciousness,
I don't think so. I can't imagine what personality has to do with anything.
(August 30, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Ronkonkoma Wrote: .. but they actually form simultaneously after birth. And the soul the way we understand it different from personality, its something inherent to a person's existence from conception on, so that's why I say it determines personhood. Will see the video and comment on it.
When I go to the bother of coming up with an alternative understanding of "soul" for the sake of finding common ground is not the time to come back with an unthinking blather of dogma. I reject all that on the face of it.
wow I watched your video its awesome. Need some time to learn it.
(September 1, 2015 at 2:22 pm)Lucanus Wrote: (September 1, 2015 at 2:15 pm)Ronkonkoma Wrote: Why? dogma is a good thing.
Wat well,supposing you're trying to teach your kid that 1+1=2 and the smart kittle bugger comes back at you and says, no 1+1=11, and 2+2 is 22 and so on.
at some point you have to go back to math which is a very dogmatic and repressive system. That makes you eeeevil. And closed minded too!
(September 1, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Ronkonkoma Wrote: (August 31, 2015 at 12:19 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: I don't think so. I can't imagine what personality has to do with anything.
When I go to the bother of coming up with an alternative understanding of "soul" for the sake of finding common ground is not the time to come back with an unthinking blather of dogma. I reject all that on the face of it.
wow I watched your video its awesome. Need some time to learn it.
(September 1, 2015 at 2:22 pm)Lucanus Wrote: Wat well,supposing you're trying to teach your kid that 1+1=2 and the smart kittle bugger comes back at you and says, no 1+1=11, and 2+2 is 22 and so on.
at some point you have to go back to math which is a very dogmatic and repressive system. That makes you eeeevil. And closed minded too! because technically your kid was also right, and who is to say that he is not more right than you? I mean, I can demonstrate arrythmetics with a lair of apples, it he demonstrates it on paper. So how do you figure out who's right? You look at the outcome of the ways of thinking. And the outcome for ignoring the existence of the soul as the immaterial part of human beings is to undermine human dignity, freedom, responsibility and rights in exchange for a system where truth is determined by who is stronger, or has more voice in the media.
whew. Got it off my shoulders. Thanks for listening.
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