AFTERLIFE, XYZ

[Lek]

The problem is that you're looking for the answers to supernatural questions in natural sources.  I think there's something inherent in humans that causes most of us continue to believe in God and an afterlife, even after we've stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny.  You'll know for sure after you die if it does exist.

I believe I was engaging in wishful thinking, rather than looking for answers. I don't believe I'll be capable of knowing anything after I die. I could be wrong, but it's unlikely.

Why do you believe you'll be incapable of knowing anything after you die? If that's the case, we have no way of knowing it.

[Athene]

I believe I was engaging in wishful thinking, rather than looking for answers. I don't believe I'll be capable of knowing anything after I die. I could be wrong, but it's unlikely.

Why do you believe you'll be incapable of knowing anything after you die?  If that's the case, we have no way of knowing it.

I'm not aware of any evidence that suggests that consciousness can continue after the brain dies. 
I'm not aware of any verifiable accounts of supernatural occurrences taking place, at any point in time, ever and I have never witnessed a such an occurrence, personally. 
I have no reason to think that something supernatural occurs after death, for those reasons.

[Lek]

Why do you believe you'll be incapable of knowing anything after you die?  If that's the case, we have no way of knowing it.

I'm not aware of any evidence that suggests that consciousness can continue after the brain dies. 
I'm not aware of any verifiable accounts of supernatural occurrences taking place, at any point in time, ever and I have never witnessed a such an occurrence, personally. 
I have no reason to think that something supernatural occurs after death, for those reasons.

I've never heard of any respected individual seriously claiming that they encountered Santa or the Easter bunny, but large numbers of respected people, with no mental illnesses, have seriously testified to having supernatural experiences and encounters with God.  Do these testimonies open you up in any to the possibility of the supernatural and/or life after death?  Or must you personally verify and test their claims by natural means?

[Athene]

I'm not aware of any evidence that suggests that consciousness can continue after the brain dies. 
I'm not aware of any verifiable accounts of supernatural occurrences taking place, at any point in time, ever and I have never witnessed a such an occurrence, personally. 
I have no reason to think that something supernatural occurs after death, for those reasons.

I've never heard of any respected individual seriously claiming that they encountered Santa or the Easter bunny, but large numbers of respected people, with no mental illnesses, have seriously testified to having supernatural experiences and encounters with God.  Do these testimonies open you up in any to the possibility of the supernatural and/or life after death?  Or must you personally verify and test their claims by natural means?

No, the only reactions testimonies of supernatural encounters get from me are a raised eyebrow or a polite nod. I believe that people making these sort of claims are confused or mistaken. Also....people lie sometimes.
I wouldn't bother trying to personally verify and test their claims by the standards of reality.

[Godscreated]

I've never heard of any respected individual seriously claiming that they encountered Santa or the Easter bunny, but large numbers of respected people, with no mental illnesses, have seriously testified to having supernatural experiences and encounters with God.  Do these testimonies open you up in any to the possibility of the supernatural and/or life after death?  Or must you personally verify and test their claims by natural means?

No, the only reactions testimonies of supernatural encounters get from me are a raised eyebrow or a polite nod. I believe that people making these sort of claims are confused or mistaken. Also....people lie sometimes.
I wouldn't bother trying to personally verify and test their claims by the standards of reality.

 You're right people do lie about some things sometimes, mainly to boost their own self, at least in their eyes. However I'm not one of those, I see such things as disingenuous and self defeating in the end. I know that God exist, I have personally experienced Him through answered prayer, and seeing things happening within the church I belonged to before leaving to serve at another church. I do not make things up, there's no use in such things this is also self defeating in the end. As for the natural and supernatural how can you compare the two, one is testable some of the time and the other is revealed when God sees it's appropriate. There's only one way to test life after death, to die and then that person can't tell you what he/she found out, because death is either permanent or God's not going to allow it. I'm curious as to what you want to discover through this thread? Pretty soon I'm going to be designing and building a couple of pieces of furniture, this will take up a great deal of time and will demand my time to get them done on time. So, soon I want be visiting here often, I'm trying to end my participation in most threads, hoping to find out what you want to discover through this thread.

GC

[Athene]

No, the only reactions testimonies of supernatural encounters get from me are a raised eyebrow or a polite nod. I believe that people making these sort of claims are confused or mistaken. Also....people lie sometimes.
I wouldn't bother trying to personally verify and test their claims by the standards of reality.

 You're right people do lie about some things sometimes, mainly to boost their own self, at least in their eyes. However I'm not one of those, I see such things as disingenuous and self defeating in the end. I know that God exist, I have personally experienced Him through answered prayer, and seeing things happening within the church I belonged to before leaving to serve at another church. I do not make things up, there's no use in such things this is also self defeating in the end. As for the natural and supernatural how can you compare the two, one is testable some of the time and the other is revealed when God sees it's appropriate. There's only one way to test life after death, to die and then that person can't tell you what he/she found out, because death is either permanent or God's not going to allow it. I'm curious as to what you want to discover through this thread? Pretty soon I'm going to be designing and building a couple of pieces of furniture, this will take up a great deal of time and will demand my time to get them done on time. So, soon I want be visiting here often, I'm trying to end my participation in most threads, hoping to find out what you want to discover through this thread.

GC

I wasn't attempting to discover anything when I composed this thread. I was challenging the idea that atheists
lack belief as a matter of rebellion, willfulness, anger etc. I was suggesting  that some atheists would very much like to believe that the loved ones they've lost could somehow continue after death, and carry on somewhere they are safe and loved.

Some non-believers are simply who are people stuck with the understanding that wanting something to be true, doesn't make it so. That may be all that separates you from many of the atheists you know.

Hope all goes well with the designing and building.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

I attended a loved one's memorial service this weekend and a recurring thought was in my mind as I listened to comforting words on being free from pain and suffering, and God's loving eternal embrace in the hereafter:
"I wish this was true."
So often on this forum, many theists seem to consider atheism to be a bitter refusal or willful act of spite. This is far from true, . If there were any good reason to believe that loved ones move on to a peaceful afterlife after they die, I wouldn't reject it. I don't think most atheists would.
During the service, in the midst of tears and grief, I found myself wondering if I had missed something...anything that might demonstrate that I could be wrong. That an afterlife in Heaven might be possible someway, somehow.
I couldn't think of any plausible reason to believe that life continuing after death is possible. My only reason for entertaining the idea was because I wanted  it to be a possibility. I still do.... but that doesn't make it so.

If this is what you want to see for yourself... Then A/S/K for it. Ask him to show you what is in store for you. One way or another I promise He will grant your request.

"And if he doesn't, Thena, then it's your fault because you're not doing it right."

Silly sod.

Sorry for your loss Thena. Stay strong.

[Lek]

I've never heard of any respected individual seriously claiming that they encountered Santa or the Easter bunny, but large numbers of respected people, with no mental illnesses, have seriously testified to having supernatural experiences and encounters with God.  Do these testimonies open you up in any to the possibility of the supernatural and/or life after death?  Or must you personally verify and test their claims by natural means?

No, the only reactions testimonies of supernatural encounters get from me are a raised eyebrow or a polite nod. I believe that people making these sort of claims are confused or mistaken. Also....people lie sometimes.
I wouldn't bother trying to personally verify and test their claims by the standards of reality.

I think that you're being biased as to whom you will believe or not. I'm trying to imagine how many intelligent and responsible people are lying about experiencing the supernatural, especially when so many of them believe it's a sin to lie. It would also be hard to be mistaken about these type of encounters. According to your statement, it seems you dismiss these claims out of hand because you've already decided they're not true. I've tried to keep an open mind, and I have changed my opinions on some things since I joined this forum. I believe it's good to keep an open mind and not let your biases cloud you opinions.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

No, the only reactions testimonies of supernatural encounters get from me are a raised eyebrow or a polite nod. I believe that people making these sort of claims are confused or mistaken. Also....people lie sometimes.
I wouldn't bother trying to personally verify and test their claims by the standards of reality.

I think that you're being biased as to whom you will believe or not. I'm trying to imagine how many intelligent and responsible people are lying about experiencing the supernatural, especially when so many of them believe it's a sin to lie. It would also be hard to be mistaken about these type of encounters. According to your statement, it seems you dismiss these claims out of hand because you've already decided they're not true. I've tried to keep an open mind, and I have changed my opinions on some things since I joined this forum. I believe it's good to keep an open mind and not let your biases cloud you opinions.

Problem is, claims on the supernatural are always the same stupid and naff reasoning with no evidence. If it had ever been different people wouldn't dismiss them out of hand.

Some schmuck comes up to you after a loved one passes away saying they can talk to them through the power of a life crystal and you die a little inside yourself at both the audacity and stupidity of such a thing (not to mention the nefarious conman angle). To me (and probably Thena) claims about Jesus or Allah are held with just the same contempt. It's all nonsense until proven otherwise. Just because you guys believe it to be true doesn't mean it is. Just because someone has experienced the 'supernatural' (which btw sort of contradicts the notion of it therefore being supernatural) doesn't mean it's suddenly a 'thing'.

Case in point, someone tries to tell you that energy crystals are a thing and you can get in touch with your spirit guide by using them, you gonna take that seriously? Shit would you Lek, and ain't nobody here gonna disagree with you if you didn't.

And this doesn't even go into the problem of these people being vultures for praying on people when they are most vulnerable. Clairvoyants/psychics/priests/imams and all the other charlatans trying to sell you a product of bereavement counciling. It's just sick.

[Godscreated]

I wasn't attempting to discover anything when I composed this thread. I was challenging the idea that atheists
lack belief as a matter of rebellion, willfulness, anger etc. I was suggesting  that some atheists would very much like to believe that the loved ones they've lost could somehow continue after death, and carry on somewhere they are safe and loved.

So you do not believe that some atheist are rebellious and/or angry ect., they all have reasonable reasons for not believing. I'm not speaking of reasonable to them specifically, but reasonable in general.
I'm sure that many non-believes would hope for an eternal life of bliss for their loved ones, what I find hard to believe especially after being here for over 5 years that anyone believing they are an atheist would hope for something like an after life of any kind, doesn't seem to fit into their logical thinking. As for non-believers in this case I'm referring to those who actually do not profess to be an atheist, people who go through life without concern for God or atheism.

Some non-believers are simply who are people stuck with the understanding that wanting something to be true, doesn't make it so. That may be all that separates you from many of the atheists you know.

 I agree that is part of what separates myself from atheist, however I believe (as I have identified them above) many non-believers want something like an after life if for nothing more than to help them cope with death. They may at least fain the belief in an after life, such as ghosts, spirits and ect. that might be conjured up or some other such belief. Not trying to derail this thread but, it's the only thing that comes to mind at the moment, some atheist believe through hope in dark matter and dark energy, there is no evidence for these things period, neither have be observed even in a lab. They have become a necessity to hold the big bang theory together. Like I said it's I only presented this as an example and want argue this point guys, I don't want to derail this thread.

Hope all goes well with the designing and building.

Thank you, one will be changing the design of a demilune table to fit what I desire, the other will be a time consuming newish (nothing new under the sun) design for a large media center cabinet, having modern function with an older world appearance, I look forward to the challenge. I like to use the older type designs for modern functions.

GC