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Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
#21
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
I got this:


Quote:omnipotent

[om-nip-uh-tuh nt]  

  • Synonyms
  • Examples
  • Word Origin
adjective
1.
almighty or infinite in power, as God.
2.
having very great or unlimited authority or power.
noun
3.
an omnipotent being.
4.
the Omnipotent, God.


dictionary.com

If you have a different definition feel free to post it.

But a 'god' who is jerking off for 13.6 billion years and finally decides to do something seems fairly impressive.... or would if it wasn't total fucking bullshit.
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#22
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
Omnipotence:


Matthew 19:26 ESV

But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Luke 1:37 ESV

For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Jeremiah 32:27 ESV

“Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?


Job 42:2 ESV

“I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.

Mark 10:27 ESV

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”


That should be enough.  But you can find more by searching the King James Version for the word "almighty" and reflect on what that word means.


Omniscience:


Job 28:24 ESV

For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens.


Psalm 147:5 ESV / 142 helpful votes

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.

1 John 3:20 ESV

For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

Isaiah 40:28 ESV

Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

Jeremiah 1:5 ESV

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Jeremiah 23:24 ESV

Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord.

Psalm 147:4-5 ESV

He determines the number of the stars; he gives to all of them their names. Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure.



I see I could have just quoted myself from before instead of looking again for those two:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-33084-po...#pid932567



Omnipresence:


Jeremiah 23:24 ESV

Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord.

Psalm 139:7-10 ESV

Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.

Colossians 1:17 ESV

And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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#23
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
(September 10, 2015 at 6:33 am)Napoléon Wrote: ... However from the verses I've read, none actually outright claim omniscience, or omnipresence, or omnipotence. It actually seems rather vague, or implied, saying things like "with god, all things are possible" for example. Well, is that claiming omnipotence or not?...
How is that not omnipotence?  If god can do anything, how is that not omnipotence?  Is it just the word "omnipotence" that you are wanting to find in the Bible, or its meaning?  What does your favorite dictionary tell you that "omnipotence" means?

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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#24
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
(September 10, 2015 at 2:17 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: How is that not omnipotence?  If god can do anything, how is that not omnipotence?

I guess you're right. But like all things in the bible it's somewhat open to interpretation. It's quite possible to say this phrase is simply a way of saying "if you have god on your side you can achieve things". A bit like, "believe in yourself". Or you can take it as a literal claim that god can do anything.

This is pretty much why I hate talking about bible verses and literature at all. Although I'm more inclined to take literally than metaphorically.

Meh.  

Quote:Is it just the word "omnipotence" that you are wanting to find in the Bible, or its meaning?  What does your favorite dictionary tell you that "omnipotence" means?

The definition Min posted is pretty much it. "Unlimited/infinite power". But I still don't think anything he posted necessarily claims such. Like I said, the act of creating the universe doesn't automatically mean infinite power. Not in my opinion. The ones you posted seemed more clear cut though.

I don't know if I'm phrasing myself poorly or I just don't know what it is I'm asking myself, all I know is I found it quite weird to hear a Jew claim the Abrahamic god wasn't omni-inserthere. The strange thing is that from a rational viewpoint it seems a lot more sensible to me to argue for a god that isn't all powerful, especially if you can justify it with bible speak. It made me wonder why more of the religious don't take this stance.

I guess it's similar to me in how the Catholic church has changed its stance previously on things that are demonstrably ridiculous and toned down their rhetoric on certain topics. I see this as a similar thing, but most religious still claim like god is all that and a bag of chips, when he doesn't have to be.
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#25
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
(September 10, 2015 at 12:09 pm)Napoléon Wrote:
(September 10, 2015 at 11:55 am)bennyboy Wrote: Yeah, but if you're making shit up, why not go for gold?  All you have to do is say, "Yeah, the paradoxes don't make sense.  But god is so omni-powerful that he's stronger even than paradox."  See, easy.

I guess I didn't get across where I'm coming from in my previous post. It's not that they go for gold that perplexes me. It's that actually, the books don't explicitly outline their god's omnipotence. They certainly give a strong hint at it, but like the Jewish guy said (I'll try and find the vid), it's not strictly something that the religious need to defend. Which is what confuses me, because an awful lot of religious people defend the omni bullshit to the hilt like it is actually scripture.

To me, saying your god created the universe, as powerful as that implies he is, it doesn't automatically mean he's omnipotent, like Min is trying to suggest. Same with any other verses that I've seen, they don't outright say god can do anything as and when he pleases. But I'm not a bible basher which is why I'm kinda cross-referencing that.

That's right.  The followers of the religion have made up much of the bullshit that they currently adhere to, despite its absence in their book.  To me, this is good evidence that Christians don't believe in Christ, or anything he said.  Show me one Christian who sells all they own to give to the poor, and who refuses to judge anyone else ("Let he among you without sin. . ."), and I'll show you a decent human being.  But most Christians aren't decent human beings, or at least not more so than me or you or anyone else.
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#26
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
(September 10, 2015 at 11:03 am)Neimenovic Wrote: But is god omnivorous as well?

There was that story where he preferred a lamb over veggies in offering....sooo...?

Throughout the OT, there's nothing god likes better than a BBQ. Personally, I believe it to be a full-fledged carnivore.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson

God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers

Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders

Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
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#27
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
He's a picky eater though. Only stuff with split hooves? What's all that about?
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#28
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
Iron chariots.

That's an ixnay on the omnipowerfulay.
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#29
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
(September 10, 2015 at 7:37 pm)Napoléon Wrote: He's a picky eater though. Only stuff with split hooves? What's all that about?

And no bacon. Obviously not omniscient - he doesn't know that shit is delicious.
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#30
RE: Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence... etc.
(September 10, 2015 at 7:46 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: And no bacon.  Obviously not omniscient - he doesn't know that shit is delicious.

Or maybe he does and he's just saving it all for his greedy self.
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