The Religion of Recycled ideas

[Longhorn]

If that makes your head spin, consider that they're both plagiarizing Judaism, which in turn plagiarizes Zoroastrianism, which in turn.....

[Minimalist]

In religion, plagiarism is called syncretism.

[brewer]

I need a magnifying glass for this. Please forward.

[Rational AKD]

don't believe every meme you see on the internet. many of the 'recycled ideas' are propaganda and half truths. i'll tackle a few to show for example:

Zoroaster:
Born of a virgin and immaculate conception by a ray-- this one has some truth to it. but Zoroaster still needed a human father and this ray was Zoroaster's spirit being infused. so the virgin part is still wrong.
Baptized in a river-- no reference for this attributed to him. he received a revelation from an archangel on the banks of a river, then crosses it... that's the closest reference.
Astounded men with his wisdom-- he had a dispute with the magi at age seven. the magi plotted against him having him imprisoned accusing him of necromancy. he was freed when he healed the King's favorite horse by making its legs grow back. Zoroaster showed he was a miracle prodigy, Jesus showed he was a prodigy in interpreting scripture. vaguely similar yet very different.
Tempted in the wilderness by the devil-- kind of... he was tempted by a demon sent by Ahriman (who would be the functional equivalent to the devil).
Began ministry at age 30-- this one is true, but it's not a significant similarity. in those societies, 30 was seen as a becoming of age to which people would be trusted in their ministries. it's like pointing out two people moved out of their parent's place by age 18.
Cast out demons-- he had abilities to drive out pestilence, witches, sorcerers, and demons. but not the same way Jesus cast them out of someone's body.
Restored sight to a blind man-- the only source for this is a document dated to the tenth century AD. he dropped juice from a plant into the man's eyes.
Taught about Heaven and Hell-- true, but not significant. it would be easy to come up with these concepts from the assumption people get what they deserve.
Revealed mysteries...-- some similarities, and some differences. the resurrection would be would be when Zoroaster taught after judgment the 'dead will rise up' and they will 'not aging, not rotting, not decaying, and not dying.' seems like resurrection, but described in negatives. as for salvation, they had a concept of salvation by works alone. there was no place for repentance or pardon. no doctrine of atonement.
Sacred cup or grail-- no source for this. but the concept of the 'holy grail' is a product of medieval legend rather than scripture anyway.
Was slain-- yes he was. but there's no significance to this. there are different iterations which include him being killed by lightning or a wizard or priest. but none of the stories have any significant similarities to Jesus.
religion had eucharist-- not to any source. they may have had communal meals like any religion, but without atonement they couldn't have had the same kind of eucharist Christians have.
He was 'the word'-- not by any found sources.
Second coming-- has some truth. but whether this second coming is Zoroaster himself is up for interpretation. many interpret it as a line of Zoroaster rather than Zoroaster himself. a vague doctrine of a future redeemer appears in texts dated as early as 400's BC. but only texts dated 9th century AD have the words 'virgin born' in them. and they report impregnation by virgin women bathing in a lake in Iran. apparently Zoroaster's sperm is preserved in a lake somewhere.

Attis:
Born December 25 from a virgin-- first, the December 25th thing is not important. it's not the actual date Jesus was born, rather Pagan tradition being brought into Christian tradition by converts. it would be a popular day for significant events as it is the winter solstice so I won't repeat this one. as for the virgin part, stories mention he's conceived by Zeus. not virgin born.
Savior slain for mankind-- Attis was never recognized as a savior. there was no symbology for his death.
His body was eaten as bread-- there are depictions of a meal, but it's not clear what they ate and drank. though it was not said it had symbolic significance.
Divine son and father-- ok... he was a son of Zeus, but was never called a divine son. and he wasn't a father. though Jesus never had children of his own either.
Was crucified on black Friday on a tree-- he died under a tree, but was not crucified under it. no reference states it happened on Friday.
Blood from the crucifixion rained down and redeemed the earth-- there was blood... but all it did was make flowers. a rather loose interpretation of redeeming the earth.
Descended into the underworld-- true, but Jesus didn't do this.
After 3 days was resurrected-- this one requires explanation. in one story, he was at a wedding getting married. Agdistis shows up and drives everyone insane and the bride dies. Attis gets upsets and falls under a pine tree and emasculates himself and dies. Agdistis pleads with Zeus to bring him back. Zeus decides to minimally oblige her request and makes it so his body doesn't decay, his hair continues to grow, and his little finger moves. in another version you have a similar story but only flowers grow where he died and turns into a pine tree. in another, the king kills attus and hides the body and it is never found. any iterations that include a resurrection are dated after Christianity.

Mithra:
Born from a virgin-- does a rock count?
12 Disciples-- no confirming source of this.
Performed miracles-- he performed many actions that proved he was a deity. so what?
Died for 3 days and was resurrected-- there are no records of Mithra dying, and he most likely didn't.
Worshiped on Sunday-- in the Roman version, but there is no evidence of the Persian version having this.

Dianysus:
Born of a virgin-- was conceived by Zeus in the form of a lightning bolt.
King of kings, alpha and omega-- that would be Zeus...
Died and was resurrected-- persecuted by Lycurgus and descended into the Alcyonian Sea. no resurrection.

Horus:
Born of a virgin-- nope. he was born of Isis and Osiris. there are several intercourse depictions of this. many would say in defense that in the Greek iteration Isis is worshiped as the holy virgin. but then again she doesn't conceive Horus in that iteration.
Star in the east adored by 3 kings-- not confirmed in any source. and Jesus had 3 wise men or magi at his birth. not kings.
Child teacher prodigy-- not confirmed in any source.
Baptized-- no.
Had 12 disciples and one walked on water-- sources mention only 4. no mentioning of walking on water.
Known by 'the light' and 'Anointed son.'-- not confirmed in any source.
Crucified and Resurrected-- there is no record of him ever dying. the closest depiction of this is when he merges with the sun god and he 'dies' every morning and is 'born' every morning. but that doesn't really resemble Jesus' death and resurrection.
Enemy Set, who represented darkness or night-- sure... how does this resemble Jesus' story?

that will do for now, I think I missed 2 of them. just take this conspiracy stuff with a grain of salt at least.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Anyway, back on topic of what the OP wanted to talk about.

I was aware it was common knowledge that a good deal of Christianity plagiarised from older cultures, but I didn't quite realise the extent of it. It really is a hodgepodge of little details from older stories. You'd think for a religion that tried to bastardize all the "false Gods" that came before, they'd at least make their own original material. Guess not...

Also side-note, Islam plagiarises a lot of Christianity, so it plagiarises a religion which already plagiarized everything else. So much plagiarism here my head is spinning.

Christianity can't be true if Judaism is false.  Islam can't be true if Christianity is false.  So which one is based on the biggest lie?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

don't believe every meme you see on the internet. many of the 'recycled ideas' are propaganda and half truths. i'll tackle a few to show for example:

---

Zoroaster:
Born of a virgin and immaculate conception by a ray-- this one has some truth to it. but Zoroaster still needed a human father and this ray was Zoroaster's spirit being infused. so the virgin part is still wrong.
Baptized in a river-- no reference for this attributed to him. he received a revelation from an archangel on the banks of a river, then crosses it... that's the closest reference.
Astounded men with his wisdom-- he had a dispute with the magi at age seven. the magi plotted against him having him imprisoned accusing him of necromancy. he was freed when he healed the King's favorite horse by making its legs grow back. Zoroaster showed he was a miracle prodigy, Jesus showed he was a prodigy in interpreting scripture. vaguely similar yet very different.
Tempted in the wilderness by the devil-- kind of... he was tempted by a demon sent by Ahriman (who would be the functional equivalent to the devil).
Began ministry at age 30-- this one is true, but it's not a significant similarity. in those societies, 30 was seen as a becoming of age to which people would be trusted in their ministries. it's like pointing out two people moved out of their parent's place by age 18.
Cast out demons-- he had abilities to drive out pestilence, witches, sorcerers, and demons. but not the same way Jesus cast them out of someone's body.
Restored sight to a blind man-- the only source for this is a document dated to the tenth century AD. he dropped juice from a plant into the man's eyes.
Taught about Heaven and Hell-- true, but not significant. it would be easy to come up with these concepts from the assumption people get what they deserve.
Revealed mysteries...-- some similarities, and some differences. the resurrection would be would be when Zoroaster taught after judgment the 'dead will rise up' and they will 'not aging, not rotting, not decaying, and not dying.' seems like resurrection, but described in negatives. as for salvation, they had a concept of salvation by works alone. there was no place for repentance or pardon. no doctrine of atonement.
Sacred cup or grail-- no source for this. but the concept of the 'holy grail' is a product of medieval legend rather than scripture anyway.
Was slain-- yes he was. but there's no significance to this. there are different iterations which include him being killed by lightning or a wizard or priest. but none of the stories have any significant similarities to Jesus.
religion had eucharist-- not to any source. they may have had communal meals like any religion, but without atonement they couldn't have had the same kind of eucharist Christians have.
He was 'the word'-- not by any found sources.
Second coming-- has some truth. but whether this second coming is Zoroaster himself is up for interpretation. many interpret it as a line of Zoroaster rather than Zoroaster himself. a vague doctrine of a future redeemer appears in texts dated as early as 400's BC. but only texts dated 9th century AD have the words 'virgin born' in them. and they report impregnation by virgin women bathing in a lake in Iran. apparently Zoroaster's sperm is preserved in a lake somewhere.

Attis:
Born December 25 from a virgin-- first, the December 25th thing is not important. it's not the actual date Jesus was born, rather Pagan tradition being brought into Christian tradition by converts. it would be a popular day for significant events as it is the winter solstice so I won't repeat this one. as for the virgin part, stories mention he's conceived by Zeus. not virgin born.
Savior slain for mankind-- Attis was never recognized as a savior. there was no symbology for his death.
His body was eaten as bread-- there are depictions of a meal, but it's not clear what they ate and drank. though it was not said it had symbolic significance.
Divine son and father-- ok... he was a son of Zeus, but was never called a divine son. and he wasn't a father. though Jesus never had children of his own either.
Was crucified on black Friday on a tree-- he died under a tree, but was not crucified under it. no reference states it happened on Friday.
Blood from the crucifixion rained down and redeemed the earth-- there was blood... but all it did was make flowers. a rather loose interpretation of redeeming the earth.
Descended into the underworld-- true, but Jesus didn't do this.
After 3 days was resurrected-- this one requires explanation. in one story, he was at a wedding getting married. Agdistis shows up and drives everyone insane and the bride dies. Attis gets upsets and falls under a pine tree and emasculates himself and dies. Agdistis pleads with Zeus to bring him back. Zeus decides to minimally oblige her request and makes it so his body doesn't decay, his hair continues to grow, and his little finger moves. in another version you have a similar story but only flowers grow where he died and turns into a pine tree. in another, the king kills attus and hides the body and it is never found. any iterations that include a resurrection are dated after Christianity.

Mithra:
Born from a virgin-- does a rock count?
12 Disciples-- no confirming source of this.
Performed miracles-- he performed many actions that proved he was a deity. so what?
Died for 3 days and was resurrected-- there are no records of Mithra dying, and he most likely didn't.
Worshiped on Sunday-- in the Roman version, but there is no evidence of the Persian version having this.

Dianysus:
Born of a virgin-- was conceived by Zeus in the form of a lightning bolt.
King of kings, alpha and omega-- that would be Zeus...
Died and was resurrected-- persecuted by Lycurgus and descended into the Alcyonian Sea. no resurrection.

Horus:
Born of a virgin-- nope. he was born of Isis and Osiris. there are several intercourse depictions of this. many would say in defense that in the Greek iteration Isis is worshiped as the holy virgin. but then again she doesn't conceive Horus in that iteration.
Star in the east adored by 3 kings-- not confirmed in any source. and Jesus had 3 wise men or magi at his birth. not kings.
Child teacher prodigy-- not confirmed in any source.
Baptized-- no.
Had 12 disciples and one walked on water-- sources mention only 4. no mentioning of walking on water.
Known by 'the light' and 'Anointed son.'-- not confirmed in any source.
Crucified and Resurrected-- there is no record of him ever dying. the closest depiction of this is when he merges with the sun god and he 'dies' every morning and is 'born' every morning. but that doesn't really resemble Jesus' death and resurrection.
Enemy Set, who represented darkness or night-- sure... how does this resemble Jesus' story?

that will do for now, I think I missed 2 of them. just take this conspiracy stuff with a grain of salt at least.

---

Thank you for this. There are many, many traceable elements in which the Hebrew and Greek mythologies were "blended" to form Christianity, but most of the above are bunkum, or at least highly questionable.

If we are going to be critical of the Christian traditions (and we should, Christian or atheist alike), then we should at least base it on the most solid information available, and not just repeat things without checking them. I knew most of the above, but learned a couple of things, and have been reading more on it, since.

Thank you for the correction, again. Three Skeptic Points to you.

[Heat]

@Rational AKD

Can you reference me to this information?

I looked up a majority of these(no i did not just copy what zeitgeist said, only for Horus)


Never saw any of what you just posted, so i doubt its accuracy.


Also if you believe that all the ancient gods and godesses had no coorelation to Jesus of Nazareth you are simply denying what's right in front of your eyes.



(ps. sorry i did not know i had to make an introduction, was just looking for a place to share my thoughts, hope you understand and don't castrate me for it)

[Rational AKD]

@Rational AKD

Can you reference me to this information?

sure, I got most of it from a book I got called shattering the Christ myth by JP Holding. but you can find that information from his site as well.
http://www.tektonics.org/copycathub.html

Also if you believe that all the ancient gods and godesses had no coorelation to Jesus of Nazareth you are simply denying what's right in front of your eyes.

I see vague similarities, but not enough to justify a correlation. certainly not enough to suggest Jesus was a copied myth. most of the information such as your meme is just propaganda.

[Minimalist]

Oh, fuck Holding. Just another apologetic con man who gets rich by telling idiots that their God is real.

[Heat]

Oh, fuck Holding.   Just another apologetic con man who gets rich by telling idiots that their God is real.

I briefly skimmed through and didnt see much else besides someone making "claims" and not providing evidence.

But also in my opinion, even if 9/10 of them were wrong for whatever reason, just 1 of them being correct shows too much coorelation to justify it being a different religion.


Also it's quite convenient that Jesus just happened to fit so many previous qualities among other religious characters, even if spread out in array to ignore the fact that all he had no new qualities whatsoever is a pathetic attempt at justifying what time and time again is disproven. The amount of evidence against what should not require evidence to disprove(The burden of proof) is quite remarkable. To deny this and choose to believe, means you are accepting that there is no clear way to understand any religious text. The fact that anything that would qualify as a "God" would rely on anecdotal testimony, and languages that die out means he is an amazingly stupid god, if actually trying to convey his message to humanity. No amount of anecdotal testimony would be enough to justify the miracles professed throughout the bible. To believe all of this after recognizing the evidence of the counter part is to quite simply deny reason and evidence, and as Sam Harris said "Once you deny evidence, there is no evidence anyone can give you in order to make you accept evidence, the conversation is done"(paraphrasing).

(sorry for the rant)