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Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 1:40 pm
It’s generally agreed that the burden of proof rests on the party who makes the positive statement. Yet, it’s not always clear who’s making the positive statement when both parties claim that the burden of proof lies on the other guy. It would be nice if one party says it is and the other party says it ain’t. But that’s not always the case.
Think of yourself as a totally disinterested party who is witnessing a co-belligerent engagement between two parties. One party says Europe and Asia are two separate continents. The other party says there is only one continent. By what criteria can we determine where the burden of proof lies? Remember, your task is not to decide who’s right and who’s wrong, nor is it to solve the dilemma. Your task is to determine which party bears the burden of proof.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
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Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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RE: Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 1:44 pm
Frankly, I think anyone who is trying to convince another that he is correct carries the onus. In your example, likely both of them have the burden of proof. They're both making positive statements, and I assume both want to convince the other (or onlookers).
However, I can say "there are no gods" all day long and not bear a burden of proof because I have no desire to persuade anyone that I'm correct. My position would be wholly unconvincing of course, but being convincing isn't my goal.
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RE: Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 1:54 pm
I say tectonic plates.
![[Image: eoP2c68jxgdpTNMzxKvveyVf.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=s2.thingpic.com%2Fimages%2FZ9%2FeoP2c68jxgdpTNMzxKvveyVf.gif)
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RE: Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 2:17 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2015 at 2:24 pm by robvalue.)
In your example, both sides are making claims, so I say both have the burden of proof for their individual claims. A sceptical, uninformed third party would believe neither claim until evidence was put forward.
As usual, I'd start with definitions and get both sides to say exactly what they think a "continent" is. It may be that they are both right, given the definition they are each using.
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RE: Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 2:25 pm
How long do you think it would take me to disprove every supernatural creature that I don't believe exists? How much effort do I need to spend before it becomes ridiculous? I'm pretty sure the main reason most people believe in their god, while disbelieving other gods is "because my holy book says so", not because they thoroughly researched every active, and probably inactive, religion in history, and came to the educated comclusion that the version of the religion that their parents taught them happened to be the right one. Though I'm sure there could be exceptions.
Not to mention all the other non deity supernatural creatures and aliens and whatnot that people will fervently claim exist. Honestly i don't think I have the time or energy for that. People have been debating this topic for thousands of years, and the only thing that's happened is separation and wars, and from what I've heard christianity is actually dying off. Though for some reason islam seems to be growing. Take that as you will.
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RE: Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 2:34 pm
When asked, the best answer to provide is:
"Your mama." 
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RE: Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 3:38 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2015 at 3:41 pm by Wyrd of Gawd.)
(October 25, 2015 at 1:54 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I say tectonic plates.
Why is Greenland larger than Africa?
Why is North America larger than Africa?
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RE: Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 4:07 pm
(October 25, 2015 at 3:38 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: (October 25, 2015 at 1:54 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I say tectonic plates.
Why is Greenland larger than Africa?
Why is North America larger than Africa?
Blame it on Mercator.
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RE: Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 4:43 pm
Because it's all but bloody impossible to project a spheroid on a flat surface without it going all distorty.
Or what Parkers said.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Who Has the Burden of Proof?
October 25, 2015 at 7:09 pm
(October 25, 2015 at 1:40 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: It’s generally agreed that the burden of proof rests on the party who makes the positive statement. Yet, it’s not always clear who’s making the positive statement when both parties claim that the burden of proof lies on the other guy. It would be nice if one party says it is and the other party says it ain’t. But that’s not always the case.
Think of yourself as a totally disinterested party who is witnessing a co-belligerent engagement between two parties. One party says Europe and Asia are two separate continents. The other party says there is only one continent. By what criteria can we determine where the burden of proof lies? Remember, your task is not to decide who’s right and who’s wrong, nor is it to solve the dilemma. Your task is to determine which party bears the burden of proof.
The default position should be a lack of ideas, not a particular idea, or should at least be that idea which requires the most simple alterations to another's world view. If you are attempting to inject factual constraints into other people's world view, you have the burden of proving that your constraints represent actual facts.
So in this case, both parties carry the burden of proof equally. They both have a view of the world they want others to accept. The REAL danger, in my opinion, is that 3rd-party participants will be forced into a false dilemma. If one moron argues that stars are angels, and the other moron argues that stars are pinpricks in space, then until they have met the burden of proof, a sensible bystander will choose "neither of the above."
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