The Future of Atheism?

[paintpooper]

"He thinks religion is on the rise at the moment. One question he raises is about what people turn to when they face a crisis in life."

Well why is religion on the rise? Are more people finding religion OR is religion being pushed on them? If it is being forced upon a people that is a problem. Do these missionary's actually think they are doing a service to the world? They run on fear just like a certain government I know.

They have WMD and we must stop them now.
If you don't go to church you will be struck down and spend eternity in hellfire.

When you face a crisis in life, you deal with it. It is just how your life turned out. Some events may be directly caused by you or they could be from an external source. Either way it happened and you can't change it no matter how much you pray or how much you drink. The difference is alcohol or your drug of choice actually has an effect on the body, whereas praying has no effect on anything besides the solace you may get by praying, but you are praying to nothing so you might as well do something that can have an effect.
It is in effect lying to yourself. After praying for years and years you must realize nothing has come true, so why do they continue to pray? I think it has a correlation with astrology, I can read my horoscope and find some small connection between it and reality. Our brains try to make patterns and make things fit. So perhaps prayers do get answered all the time, but if you pray everyday for things that can and will happen it is hardly anything special.

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

Some people take solace in a bottle of booze, some people take solace in Jesus.

At least the people who drink are dealing with a reality.

Absolutely. I've never been an alcoholic, but I've had my share of drug problems.

If I had to choose between going religious and taking up cocaine again?

No contest. Hello white powder. I was pretty fucked up back then, but at least I was sane.

Doesn't cocaine make some people go insane? I'm glad nobody's making you choose between cocaine and religion. McGrath would probably interpret your choice as being closed minded towards the existence of a deity or some nonsense.

[bozo]

I think that if it were possible to debate the issue of god/no god with every single person on the planet...we would be in the big majority.

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

I think that if it were possible to debate the issue of god/no god with every single person on the planet...we would be in the big majority.

like i said on another thread, we need to get on bikes and knock on doors with brochures. someone suggested we carry out our propaganda while shirtless (if we have six packs). I believe a significant amount of people don't even know that 'atheism' is an option. Out of about 50 people that I presented atheism to in person, 5 of those people became atheists eventually. if we can let people know that we don't eat babies, and we can carry out a conversation with them being polite and respectful...

[SleepingDemon]

For starters Skeptic our ideology doesn't warrant itself to the Jehovah's Witness-esque door to door method. It works for them because they are peddling bullshit. But when a stranger knocks on your door, what are you thinking about at that very moment? I'm thinking, shit, they are going to try to sell me something, maybe if I don't answer they will go away as i'd hate to have to throw someone off of my porch.

In principle atheism itself is on the rise, we've seen a lot of countries in Europe make the move to secularism in the last few decades, with America lagging behind...as always. It really depends on the people we elect into office. If everyone keeps electing uber-religious crackheads into office, then our country will continue to be theocratic. We need to elect politicians who are based in reality, whose methods and beliefs aren't in the realm of some fantasy world. It is a daunting task.

[tavarish]

I think that if it were possible to debate the issue of god/no god with every single person on the planet...we would be in the big majority.

like i said on another thread, we need to get on bikes and knock on doors with brochures. someone suggested we carry out our propaganda while shirtless (if we have six packs). I believe a significant amount of people don't even know that 'atheism' is an option. Out of about 50 people that I presented atheism to in person, 5 of those people became atheists eventually. if we can let people know that we don't eat babies, and we can carry out a conversation with them being polite and respectful...

Here's a thought - stop trying to convert people. Why is it important that everyone think the way you do?

---

For starters Skeptic our ideology doesn't warrant itself to the Jehovah's Witness-esque door to door method.

What's an atheist ideology?

In principle atheism itself is on the rise, we've seen a lot of countries in Europe make the move to secularism in the last few decades, with America lagging behind...as always. It really depends on the people we elect into office. If everyone keeps electing uber-religious crackheads into office, then our country will continue to be theocratic. We need to elect politicians who are based in reality, whose methods and beliefs aren't in the realm of some fantasy world. It is a daunting task.

Our country isn't theocratic. I'd suggest you read the Constitution before making such remarks. We are a majority religious nation, but we don't have some sort of divine rule over the land. If you don't like the people running for office, then assemble and get someone who does represent the view of society as it truly is.

This country was started as a secular nation, and to this day has an overwhelming majority of its citizens as moderates, not religious zealots or fringe groups. I think anyone can believe whatever they want, just as long as they don't force it on me. If we can just coexist without too much strife, we'll be fine. Diversity is how this nation was forged.

[Caecilian]

Our country isn't theocratic. I'd suggest you read the Constitution before making such remarks. We are a majority religious nation, but we don't have some sort of divine rule over the land. If you don't like the people running for office, then assemble and get someone who does represent the view of society as it truly is.

This country was started as a secular nation, and to this day has an overwhelming majority of its citizens as moderates, not religious zealots or fringe groups. I think anyone can believe whatever they want, just as long as they don't force it on me. If we can just coexist without too much strife, we'll be fine. Diversity is how this nation was forged.

The US was certainly founded as a secular nation- no doubt about that. The religious views of the founding fathers varied a great deal. Some were christians (Hamilton, Jay, Patrick Henry), some were deists (John Adams, Jefferson, Madison), and some had views that were an amalgam of christianity and deism (Franklin, Washington). The constitution mandates the seperation of church and state.

Jefferson was an outspoken deist- he didn't mince his words:

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.

This guy got elected President- twice. Someone with those kind of views would now be completely unelectable. Sadly, the US has become a much more religious nation, and religion has invaded political life to a degree which would have appalled the founding fathers.

Constitutionally, the US remains secular. But in practice no one can get elected to anything without a public declaration of faith. In practice, the tax exempt status of religious organizations amounts to a huge state subsidy. In practice, one of the two main political parties is to a great degree controlled by religious zealots. And in practice, god is continually invoked as a justification for this policy or that, for attacks on foreign countries (the Iraq War), for the superiority of the US to other nations.

The US isn't a theocracy, but de facto it isn't secular either. Its a country with some theocratic aspects or elements. It isn't Iran (a real theocracy), but nor is it France (a real secular state).

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

I think that if it were possible to debate the issue of god/no god with every single person on the planet...we would be in the big majority.

like i said on another thread, we need to get on bikes and knock on doors with brochures. someone suggested we carry out our propaganda while shirtless (if we have six packs). I believe a significant amount of people don't even know that 'atheism' is an option. Out of about 50 people that I presented atheism to in person, 5 of those people became atheists eventually. if we can let people know that we don't eat babies, and we can carry out a conversation with them being polite and respectful...

Here's a thought - stop trying to convert people. Why is it important that everyone think the way you do?

don't you argue with creationists with the goal of helping them understand our point of view? You must be against atheist propaganda too seeing you don't care whether people think like us or even know that we exist. So you oppose atheist banners on buses? If you aren't against atheist propaganda, you're contradicting yourself in your response to me.

[downbeatplumb]

don't you argue with creationists with the goal of helping them understand your point of view?

Only if their open to it.

Pushing your opinions on people who dont want to listen is annoying.

Ask any jehovahs witness, they must know the contempt people feel for them, but still out they go.

Youve got to admire the boneheaded shit for brains for that, it must be hard.

[The_Flying_Skeptic]

don't you argue with creationists with the goal of helping them understand your point of view?

Only if their open to it.

Pushing your opinions on people who dont want to listen is annoying.

Ask any jehovahs witness, they must know the contempt people feel for them, but still out they go.

Youve got to admire the boneheaded shit for brains for that, it must be hard.

I think 'pushing their opinion' is an exaggeration of what Mormons do in my opinion. They come to your door and ask some questions and give you a piece of paper you can read or throw away. You decide whether or not you want to open the door or tell them to go away. What you and tavarish seem to calling 'pushing your opinion' is comparable to the rejection of any atheist propaganda such as atheist banners on buses. We are 'selling' an idea every time we try to help theists overcome misconceptions about atheism.