(December 15, 2008 at 12:14 pm)Daystar Wrote: When I was younger I was raised as a non religious non militant atheist. When presented with the choice of being a Xian I rejected that because I thought Xians were nuts, delusional, hypocrites. I made a choice based upon that. I chose not to believe in God even without any real knowledge of God. Later, when I studied the Bible in order to debunk it I realized that Xians were worse than the crazy, delusion, hypocrites they obviously were, they also fucked up the real meaning of the Bible for the sake of stupid pagan myth and Santy Clause. God and the Bible was true.
When you didn't believe in God that was for a reason right? You didn't
decide "I'm not going to believe this nonsense! I decide not to believe this. I choose not to believe this". Then when you studied the bible you believed in it and God for a reason right? You didn't think "Ok I've decided to believe it now, I choose to believe now". If I
decided to believe in God, if I
chose to believe in God. That wouldn't make me believe it. I could decide to now, I could commit to believing in God if I really wanted to (and I don't of course) but that wouldn't make me believe it. I'd be faking belief. You can't
decide to believe. You believe for a reason. Thats what I think at least, I'd be interested in hearing your response.
Quote:You choose to believe based upon what you know. Do you think belief is some supernatural phenomenon that just happens. "Oh, I didn't want to believe that but (DUH) I do! Luck of the draw, I guess."
You believe based on what you believe is true. You don't believe true things out of choice. You can choose to commit things you don't believe in but I don't think you can choose to believe things that you don't believe in. Until you really believe them, you don't believe them. You can do research to discover information that leads you into believing that info to be representative of the truth. But how could you decide to believe? You could decide to commit to belief. But you can commit to belief without actually believing in your commitment. Thats what I think. I could be mistaken of course.
To do my own version of what you said in speech marks above: "Oh, I don't actually believe but (DUH) I must believe really because I can choose to believe! I can choose to believe! so I
must believe. It still counts. Even if I don't
really believe in God. I choose to believe so even though deep down I don't think there's a God. I decide! So I do!"
Of course that would be absurd. Thats the point
You believe in God for a reason, not because you choose to. If you believe in God out of choice thats because you believe that you can believe in God out of choice. You didn't choose the ability to believe out of choice at least!
If something looked like it had loads of merit and reward IF you believed it. But you really thought it was total nonsense and it would be delusional to believe it. If you wanted to, could you choose to believe it?
Quote:I am not saying that one believes what one wants to believe, though that is common, I am saying that one has a choice, based upon either no knowledge or great knowledge. A desire or a rational reason but a choice nevertheless.
So if someone believes that 2+2=4, was that a choice? Could they decide to believe otherwise once they believe it? Could I decide to believe 2+2=7?
And if I didn't know what 2+2 is could I CHOOSE to believe that 2+2=4? Completely out of free will? Or is it that I would believe it once I am convinced. Either for rational reasons or desire
I can't think of why
that at least wouldn't be for a rational reason though! I can't think how I would believe that for desire. And I certainly can't think how that would be a
decision.
Quote:You're not making any sense. Think about it. You choose.
So I chose to believe apples exist? I didn't just see them and feel them and realize they existed? Have you decided not to believe the FSM exists? Or do you just think the idea is unbelievable?
