The Ultimate Value and the signs of it in ourselves.

[Whateverist]

If people still can't admit they have exact accurate measurement value...

Yes then I can't prove God to you, but if you can admit that, it's been proven.

So you intend to convince us your premise is good by arguing that we know it but refuse to admit it.  


That has never worked.

[Astonished]

If people still can't admit they have exact accurate measurement value...

Yes then I can't prove God to you, but if you can admit that, it's been proven.

So you intend to convince us your premise is good by arguing that we know it but refuse to admit it.  


That has never worked.

Ah, ah, ah. You KNOW that at some point in history, someone had to be stupid enough to fall for that.

[Mystic]

If people still can't admit they have exact accurate measurement value...

Yes then I can't prove God to you, but if you can admit that, it's been proven.

So you intend to convince us your premise is good by arguing that we know it but refuse to admit it.  


That has never worked.

You are right but only because people choose to be dishonest to themselves.

[Whateverist]

So you intend to convince us your premise is good by arguing that we know it but refuse to admit it.  


That has never worked.

You are right but only because people choose to be dishonest to themselves.

Then how do I know you're not being dishonest with yourself right now?  For that matter, how do you know you're not being dishonest with yourself?

[Mystic]

You are right but only because people choose to be dishonest to themselves.

Then how do I know you're not being dishonest with yourself right now?  For that matter, how do you know you're not being dishonest with yourself?

Do you remember the thread I made about the distinction between knowledge and illusionary belief? The former is belief with honesty, and the latter is with dishonesty.  What you truly believe is what you know. But people disagreed.

I make the distinction in that when your soul is convinced it knows something with honesty in that convincing and is not seeking to be deceived, it does really know.

[Whateverist]

Yeah, whatever. I'm convinced I'm being entirely honest with myself when I say I don't know and don't care what this God is that is so important to you and others. Do as you like. I know I will.

[Mystic]

At the end Whateverist, we have to look deep within. If I don't know God exists, then Atheists just telling me this won't make me believe that. And if you don't know God exists nor actually finding any of the proofs for God convincing, at the end, all Theists and Atheists what they say, should hold no sway.

It's about being honest to oneself and looking deep within if you don't hold yourself to account, no one can remind you or help you in that regard.

[Whateverist]

At the end Whateverist, we have to look deep within.  If I don't know God exists,  then Atheists just telling me this won't make me believe that. And if you don't know God exists nor actually finding any of the proofs for God convincing, at the end, all Theists and Atheists what they say, should hold no sway.

It's about being honest to oneself and looking deep within if you don't hold yourself to account, no one can remind you or help you in that regard.

Been there, done that.  Good luck with your own search.

[drfuzzy]

Yeah, you're strongly reminding me of my Mother right now.  She would practically scream herself into a stroke when anything on TV or the radio disagreed with her worldview.  I'll never forget when I made the mistake of asking her about a contradiction in the Bible. (whew) "There is only one TRUTH and only one GOD, and only one BIBLE!!"  Anything that disagrees with the Bible is from Satan!  If you think your stupid little brain has found something wrong with GOD's WORD, the problem is that you haven't prayed enough!"  You should have seen her when she found an article on dinosaurs in a kid's magazine.  Wowza. 

Only ONE TRUTH - hers.  HER god. Anyone who could not see the truth of her god was dishonest, evil, stupid, and possibly possessed by demons.  And they deserved to burn in hell for eternity.

I learned that the people that scream about dishonesty in others (unless it's about somebody like Trump) are only protecting their own self delusion.

I absolutely refuse to give any religious book, any "inspirational story", or any priest, imam, or preacher any credence or respect. I will not accept claims without evidence.  This is simply being honest.

[Mystic]

I am possessed by demons. We all have to fight our demons. I am possessed to a degree most people are not.

I know it did lead me away from religion, so I know it did that to me.

At the end, I know if we don't fight for our souls, no one will. If we don't seek to break deceptions and know the truth with power, resolve, and sincerity, then yes while we don't choose our beliefs that are formulated like a chaotic tornado mocking up the beautiful city we were originated on, but never less, we chose to let go of control over our souls and let the demons take over.

I am sorry if it sounds cheesey, if it sounds preachy, if it's annoying, but I feel it's my duty to at least try to help.  I know it most likely won't help, but I have to try.