The backbreaker

[Nihilist Virus]

I've spoken with Christians who are OK with contradictions in the Bible, Christians who believe in the Big Bang and unguided evolution, and Christians who disregard the unsavory things in the Old Testament. But I have never seen a good response to my backbreaker here. The Christian retreats behind the shield of faith, no longer even sure what that faith is in.

It's a simple question:
Is God above the law or not?

It would seem to me that the answer to this question is an obvious no. Jesus had to die because of the weight of the law. If God was above the law then he would just forgive everyone without sending his son to pay for the debts.

But then there is a problem. Deuteronomy 24:16 says,

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

This, presumably, is directly from God.

Then in 2 Samuel 12:13-20, David's son is killed by God because of sins committed by David.

So it looks like God actually is above the law. Why, then, did Jesus die on the cross? Surely it was not for his own amusement. Ultimately there was no reason for it since God, being above the law, can wipe the slate clean with no need of a human sacrifice.

Therefore Christianity, a belief system based entirely on the "fact" that Jesus rose from a death that was necessary for our salvation, renders itself pointless.

[ignoramus]

Which is why the bible needs to be read and swallowed but not analysed critically.

Everything can be explained by a simple "it isn't the word of god".

It should be titled: The idiots guide to self enslavement.

[brewer]

In a fantasy story you get to make up the rules/law as you go along. You just change it to fit which ever fantasy story you're telling at the time.

[drfuzzy]

That's a good backbreaker!  Thanks NV . . . I'm taking notes.  Here is another good one:

Romans 5:12   Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
I was taught that Christ died as the perfect sacrifice: the one born without original sin who had never sinned, was able to pay for our original sin and open the gates of heaven to believers.  But since there was no original sin and no Adam and Eve . . . that reasoning is patently absurd.

[Godscreated]

 I have never seen a good response to my backbreaker here.  The Christian retreats behind the shield of faith, no longer even sure what that faith is in.
It's a simple question:
Is God above the law or not?

God is the law, we are judged against who God is. This is given to us in the scriptures where God says to be holy as I am holy. We are to move away from the sinful world and live more like Christ. This answer can't come from Christians who believe they can still be part of the sinful world and ignore the whole word of God as you mentioned in the part I deleted. By the way I'm completely certain of the One in whom I have faith in.

 Jesus had to die because of the weight of the law. If God was above the law then he would just forgive everyone without sending his son to pay for the debts.

 I see your Biblical understanding is weak at the best but in my opinion practically none
.

But then there is a problem. Deuteronomy 24:16 says,

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Again you show real lack of Biblical knowledge, the death in this verse is concerning eternity, not of this world. Shame on you for not doing real Biblical research.

Then in 2 Samuel 12:13-20, David's son is killed by God because of sins committed by David.

This was an earthly punishment for David, one he never got over. David lived and suffered even though God forgave him. His son died even though David sinned, the son went to God forever. You're looking at one of many Christ types in the OT. 

So it looks like God actually is above the law.  Why, then, did Jesus die on the cross?  Surely it was not for his own amusement.  Ultimately there was no reason for it since God, being above the law, can wipe the slate clean with no need of a human sacrifice.

This is such nonsense on so may levels... well it's sad. 

Therefore Christianity, a belief system based entirely on the "fact" that Jesus rose from a death that was necessary for our salvation, renders itself pointless.

Nothing you said comes close to proving the above statement, you need to read and study for several years and thn come back.

GC

[Minimalist]

God is the law, we are judged against who God is.

Once again G-C, you show up to prove the OPs point.

[robvalue]

It makes no sense any way round.

If God is free to do things any way he wants, subject to no laws or restrictions, the whole Jesus debacle was just ridiculous theatre instead of just saying "I forgive a bunch of sins".

If he is bound by laws and restrictions, who made them? Himself?

Of course, I've not heard a good argument as to how this reality isn't just a theatre for God anyway. An especially pointless one in which he knows everything that will happen.

[ignoramus]

Yeah, a perfect being made the universe and all life.
But then stumbled and fumbled his way like a comedy of errors....

For the theists sake, let's hope the Bible isn't the innerant word of said clown.

[Nihilist Virus]

 I have never seen a good response to my backbreaker here.  The Christian retreats behind the shield of faith, no longer even sure what that faith is in.
It's a simple question:
Is God above the law or not?

God is the law, we are judged against who God is. This is given to us in the scriptures where God says to be holy as I am holy. We are to move away from the sinful world and live more like Christ. This answer can't come from Christians who believe they can still be part of the sinful world and ignore the whole word of God as you mentioned in the part I deleted. By the way I'm completely certain of the One in whom I have faith in.

 Jesus had to die because of the weight of the law. If God was above the law then he would just forgive everyone without sending his son to pay for the debts.

 I see your Biblical understanding is weak at the best but in my opinion practically none
.

But then there is a problem. Deuteronomy 24:16 says,

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Again you show real lack of Biblical knowledge, the death in this verse is concerning eternity, not of this world. Shame on you for not doing real Biblical research.

Then in 2 Samuel 12:13-20, David's son is killed by God because of sins committed by David.

This was an earthly punishment for David, one he never got over. David lived and suffered even though God forgave him. His son died even though David sinned, the son went to God forever. You're looking at one of many Christ types in the OT. 

So it looks like God actually is above the law.  Why, then, did Jesus die on the cross?  Surely it was not for his own amusement.  Ultimately there was no reason for it since God, being above the law, can wipe the slate clean with no need of a human sacrifice.

This is such nonsense on so may levels... well it's sad. 

Therefore Christianity, a belief system based entirely on the "fact" that Jesus rose from a death that was necessary for our salvation, renders itself pointless.

Nothing you said comes close to proving the above statement, you need to read and study for several years and thn come back.

GC

God is the law, we are judged against who God is. This is given to us in the scriptures where God says to be holy as I am holy. We are to move away from the sinful world and live more like Christ. This answer can't come from Christians who believe they can still be part of the sinful world and ignore the whole word of God as you mentioned in the part I deleted. By the way I'm completely certain of the One in whom I have faith in.

You say that God is the law.  Also, may I presume you believe that Jesus is God? Then it follows that the law died for our sins.  "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's ass" was crucified.




Again you show real lack of Biblical knowledge, the death in this verse is concerning eternity, not of this world. Shame on you for not doing real Biblical research.

Just like working on the Sabbath doesn't mean physical death but rather eternal death.  Except they stoned a guy for working on the Sabbath.


This was an earthly punishment for David, one he never got over. David lived and suffered even though God forgave him. His son died even though David sinned, the son went to God forever. You're looking at one of many Christ types in the OT. 

So... David was simultaneously punished and forgiven.




Nothing you said comes close to proving the above statement, you need to read and study for several years and thn come back.

[Godscreated]

@ NV, I see you have to resort to grade school tactics to reply to Christians with knowledge of the scriptures. So, you think that God will eternally punish those people who have to work on the Sabbath, doctors, nurses, ect. Yeah right. I'm done with this conversation, your back breaker has backfired on you.

GC