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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 1, 2010 at 3:06 pm
(August 1, 2010 at 2:46 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You are barking up completely the wrong tree Welsh Cake. Hey, merely repeating what Christians are actually professing out there as we speak. If you have an issue with that then obviously it's best to take it up with those who believe in God, Jesus and yet still reject it. I reject all three, but then I shouldn't have to remind you that should I?
fr0d0 Wrote:Yes some churches don't USE the Creeds as part of ceremony for the reasons you state... but they do acknowledge their centrality to their belief stance, and ALL Christians will acknowledge adherence to the Nicene Creed. It's what unites us, and you have yet to provide one spec of evidence to the contrary. I think you proved my point in that some Christians don't regard it enough to consider its usage for ceremonial purposes. And what does acknowledge in the context you're using it even supposed to mean? I acknowledge the concept of God, doesn't mean for one second that I accept it as real or true.
Quote:The Apocrypha is accepted by the Catholic church alone I think. This is their denominational bias, which still fits in with the Nicene Creed. I don't happen to accept it, but I am together with them in our Christian faith.
Depends. If its New Testament apocrypha both Catholics and Protestants hate it with every fibre of their being.
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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 1, 2010 at 4:04 pm
I don't see you challenging the claim there at all Welsh Cake. All Christians accept the Nicene Creed.
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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 2, 2010 at 3:01 am
(August 1, 2010 at 4:04 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I don't see you challenging the claim there at all Welsh Cake. All Christians accept the Nicene Creed.
Depends on your definition of "Christian".
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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 2, 2010 at 5:10 am
I covered that tav
"A secular dictionary might encompass JW and Mormon flavour Christianity, where Jesus isn't actually God, in its definition of Christianity. And it would be correct in it's completeness. However... if you want a strict definition of the world faith of Christianity, then you need to be more accurate."
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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 2, 2010 at 8:29 am
(August 1, 2010 at 1:22 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Secularists are not Christian, and can only take their definitions from what Christians tell them. Small correction.
"Some secularists are not Christian..."
As far as I am aware, even going by your definition of Christian, it is not impossible to be both a Christian, and a secularist. Secularism is a political view, not a religious one.
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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 2, 2010 at 9:01 am
Thankyou. Wrong word then.
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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 2, 2010 at 9:10 am
So you meant "non-believer", in which case I'd agree with you. It isn't up to us what Christians are; it's up to Christianity. If you believe in Christianity, you are a Christian. If Christianity requires believing in the Nicene Creed, then people who don't believe in it cannot be Christians.
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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 2, 2010 at 9:18 am
(August 2, 2010 at 9:10 am)Tiberius Wrote: So you meant "non-believer", in which case I'd agree with you. It isn't up to us what Christians are; it's up to Christianity. If you believe in Christianity, you are a Christian. If Christianity requires believing in the Nicene Creed, then people who don't believe in it cannot be Christians.
Who decides what Christianity is? How many Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves a denomination of Christianity? Does that make it valid, or is it the kind of thing that sticks to the group that claims it first?
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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 2, 2010 at 9:21 am
I don't know, nor do I claim to know. I'm not getting involved in the argument about who defines Christianity; I just noted that the religion is defined by its doctrine, and by what the key tenets of the faith involve. If as fr0d0 suggests, the Nicene Creed was the agreement of the doctrine, then the Nicene Creed is what we should go by.
People can think they are "Christian" all they want, just as people can think they aren't "gay" all they want, but thinking (or believing) something doesn't make it true.
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RE: Heresy Hypothesis
August 2, 2010 at 9:24 am
(August 2, 2010 at 9:18 am)tavarish Wrote: Who decides what Christianity is? How many Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves a denomination of Christianity? Does that make it valid, or is it the kind of thing that sticks to the group that claims it first?
Doesn't the word "Christian" mean "follower of Christ"? If you follow the teachings of Christ (whatever you think those are), doesn't that make you a "Christian"?
Btw, I once knew a guy who considered himself an "atheist Christian". He didn't buy into any of the supernatural stuff but still valued the "teachings of Jesus". Personally, I don't see how that's possible, given how intertwined the supernatural is with his teachings and there are far better moral teachers that you can draw inspiration from but there you go.
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