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Existence must exist at all times.
May 21, 2016 at 5:54 am
(This post was last modified: May 21, 2016 at 5:59 am by Edwardo Piet.)
Whatever existence is, I don't need to go into in order to argue that whatever it is it is indeed eternally existent.
Here is my argument:
Existence must always exist because that is the same as existence always being existent. Existence must always be existent for the same reason that atheists must always be atheistic, theists must always be theistic, agnostics must always be agnostic, elephants must always be elephant like, humans must always be human, squares must always be square, circles must always be circular, triangles must always be triangular, etc etc [fill in the blank]. This is the Law of Identity in logic. It is A=A and is never not A.
Because existence is existent at all times, that logically entails that existence, whatever it is, is eternal and never began and will never stop. This is different to the beginning of the universe or the big bang.
The question is never whether existence itself exists, whatever it is it is existent by definition for the reason explained above. The real question is twofold I reckon:
1. What exactly is existence?
2. Is question 1 a pointless question and existence by itself as the totality of all things a rather vacuous concept or is it worth thinking about?
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RE: Existence must exist at all times.
May 21, 2016 at 12:12 pm
(This post was last modified: May 21, 2016 at 12:15 pm by purplepurpose.)
Its an incomprehensible phenomenon on the same level as why "absolutely nothing" became universe. You cannot logically connect all things in life.
In youtube video one of the top scientists dismissed those kind of questions by a theory that our brain is flawed, as we are just survivalist animals.
Even strongest of minds couldn't take the melting of brains those "magical" questions were doing.
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RE: Existence must exist at all times.
May 21, 2016 at 7:56 pm
Time is the measure of change of state of things, so by the OP, 100% chance things have existed all the time.
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RE: Existence must exist at all times.
May 21, 2016 at 9:22 pm
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: Existence must exist at all times.
May 21, 2016 at 9:24 pm
Existence, as we know and understand it, does exist at all times.
Only when one tries to introduce a foreign concept does existence become questioned.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Existence must exist at all times.
May 21, 2016 at 10:31 pm
If existence did NOT exist at all times, we'd need another word for it. Just as had been pointed out, an elephant is always an elephant, but things which are not elephant cannot logically be called 'elephant'. By the same token, that which exists must definitionally be in an existant state at all times. 'Non-existant' is semantically equivalent to 'non-elephant'.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Existence must exist at all times.
May 24, 2016 at 5:59 pm
(May 21, 2016 at 5:54 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Whatever existence is, I don't need to go into in order to argue that whatever it is it is indeed eternally existent.
Here is my argument:
Existence must always exist because that is the same as existence always being existent. Existence must always be existent for the same reason that atheists must always be atheistic, theists must always be theistic, agnostics must always be agnostic, elephants must always be elephant like, humans must always be human, squares must always be square, circles must always be circular, triangles must always be triangular, etc etc [fill in the blank]. This is the Law of Identity in logic. It is A=A and is never not A.
Because existence is existent at all times, that logically entails that existence, whatever it is, is eternal and never began and will never stop. This is different to the beginning of the universe or the big bang.
Or rather nothing may only be coherently grasped in the context of an absence of "something". Something may only ponder nothingness..."absolute nothingness" is an incoherent notion.
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RE: Existence must exist at all times.
November 7, 2016 at 10:26 pm
I like my thread.
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RE: Existence must exist at all times.
November 7, 2016 at 10:31 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2016 at 10:38 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 21, 2016 at 10:31 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If existence did NOT exist at all times, we'd need another word for it. Just as had been pointed out, an elephant is always an elephant, but things which are not elephant cannot logically be called 'elephant'. By the same token, that which exists must definitionally be in an existant state at all times. 'Non-existant' is semantically equivalent to 'non-elephant'.
Boru
This.
Everything that existed existed, everything that exists exists, and everything that will exist, whatever it will be, will exist.
The slightly more difficult question, perhaps, is... did existence have to be existent? Did the totality of all things have to be the totality of all things? I think yes... they didn't have to be the way they are but they had to exist. Because what's the alternative to the totality of all things being the totality of all things? Them not being themselves? The alternative would be for all things to not be all things but all things have to be all things.
Why is there something rather than nothing? Because there can't be nothing. Why did the big bang happen? Now there's a question.
Could there have been nothing but emptiness? Only if emptiness is something.
The problem is with defining "existence". I fully agree with this from Wikipedia's article on existence:
Wikipedia Wrote:The two terms are joined by the verb "is" (or "is not", if the predicate is denied of the subject). Thus every proposition has three components: the two terms, and the "copula" that connects or separates them. Even when the proposition has only two words, the three terms are still there. For example, "God loves humanity", really means "God is a lover of humanity", "God exists" means "God is a thing".
My emphasis.
Likewise: "God doesn't exist" means "God is not a thing". (More commonly expressed as "there's no such thing as God").
So, all things had to exist because every thing that exists is a thing that is a thing. For something to not exist you'd have to define existence more narrowly so as to have non-existent things and existent things... but that would mean that the "nothing" that would exist if nothing had existed would actually be a thing... that doesn't cut it for me. "An existent thing" is a tautology. It's the same as "a thing."
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RE: Existence must exist at all times.
November 7, 2016 at 10:33 pm
That doesn't mean existence has always been recognizable as such by us or that we could possibly access any data to verify this is true. None the less by the very meaning of the words we use it certainly does seem to be the case, doesn't it? Of course that may well mean that its being true is more about how we tick than the way things stand. But screw it, I'll take it.
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