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The problem of free will
#1
The problem of free will
I am going to say two things there.

If we have free will god is not all knowing. - Leave it at that

if there is no free will then god himself has none as well he knows every outcome he is simply put
a slave to his own knowledge and actions. Even if his/hers/it's actions are evil there is nothing to stop it
simply even a being of infinite power ironically cannot escape the proverbial destiny of it's own actions.
Said actions will happen regardless of a all powerful or finite powerful being such as humans. So that being said
god knows all does actions that were meant to happen.  

So yeah that's that god if all knowing is a slave to his own knowledge of past present and future events.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today. 


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#2
RE: The problem of free will
Theologians can play lots of games here and say that god has some sort of "middle knowledge" or does not know the future or does know the future but that does not change the fact that you still have free will.

And, yet, through all of this, god remains silent.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#3
RE: The problem of free will
Free will is an incoherent concept.

Do you know why I don't choose to eat a bowl of salt? Because I have no initial desire to do so. In fact, I have an aversion to it.

Did God consult me when creating me with these initial likes and dislikes? Certainly not. So my "free will" (presupposing that it exists) is still just an engine that operates on pre-existing conditions, making the result rigged.

We act in accordance with desired outcomes to the best of our ability as rational animals. Free will is the moronic invention of the apologist and it doesn't even appear in the Bible.
Jesus is like Pinocchio.  He's the bastard son of a carpenter. And a liar. And he wishes he was real.
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#4
RE: The problem of free will
Another free will thread?!?!??!?!

* Edwardo Piet faints
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#5
RE: The problem of free will
Compatabilist free will is true incompatabilist free will is false.

/thread
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#6
RE: The problem of free will
(August 4, 2016 at 3:55 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: Free will is an incoherent concept.

Do you know why I don't choose to eat a bowl of salt?  Because I have no initial desire to do so.  In fact, I have an aversion to it.

Did God consult me when creating me with these initial likes and dislikes?  Certainly not.  So my "free will" (presupposing that it exists) is still just an engine that operates on pre-existing conditions, making the result rigged.

We act in accordance with desired outcomes to the best of our ability as rational animals.  Free will is the moronic invention of the apologist and it doesn't even appear in the Bible.

I actually agree with everything you said, except of the origins of free will. In that Free will was an adopted 'doctrine' of Greek philosophy, and it is never actually mentioned in the bible once. The bible identifies as slaves, not beings who have 'free will.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

"The underlying questions are whether we have control over our actions, and if so, what sort of control, and to what extent. These questions predate the early Greek stoics (for example, Chrysippus), and some modern philosophers lament the lack of progress over all these millennia.[6][7]"
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#7
RE: The problem of free will
Unfortunately for christianity, no free will...no moral desert.  No moral desert, no justifications for gods actions against the ungodly (or living christians' screeds against, well..anyone for anything). Also..no reason or effect to A/S/King.

You're a god botherer, I'm not...neither of us can help but be who we are...one of us will get the short end. Oh well, I guess. Born into the grave indeed. Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#8
RE: The problem of free will
It must also be acknowledged that free will is a debate within Christianity - Calvinists being hard determinists, Arminianists having a kind of compatabalism, and most of the rest advocating for libertarian free will. I think the question really hinges on how someone believes time works: presentism or eternalism. I haven't made up my mind on that question, though I think eternalism is more theologically defensible.

In theological eternalism, everything (past, present, and future) is known by the Lord' completely in the now. That would mean that He doesn't know today what you will do tomorrow because He already knows it tomorrow. The flip side of that is that he doesn't know today what you did yesterday because he still knows that in the yesterday that is still present before Him. It seems to me that if that is the case then free will is not manifest through a temporal series of decisions, but rather by a single act of will someone that resonates across all time simultaneously.
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#9
RE: The problem of free will
I doubt that you'll find the answer to how time works...in theology.  GL anyway.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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