WTF???

[Scarface]

Original Poster (I think).

[AngryBiker]

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and one which atheists are increasingly, and sadly, beginning to fulfill.

Not something I've noticed. I HAVE noticed a small number of outspoken militants being given disproportionate attention. Many of those seem to be the same people who have made celebrities out of Dawkins and Hitchens.


Here in Australia, it's considered crass to wear one's personal beliefs on one's sleeve. (except for sports of course) Most normal people treat religious proselytisesr and militant atheists with a kind of amused contempt.

My own views are more common than not:I really don't care what others believe and will not argue with an agenda. I will sometimes give an opinion if asked a direct question,but only if I have some regard for the interlocutor.

Internet forums are a different world;anonymous and safe to express honest views..

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Cheers, Padraic.

[Eilonnwy]

Angrybiker, STOP quoting large posts to make short replies. I've cleaned up two of your posts just, and there are others just as messy here. Keep it up and I will give you a warning.

Please read this post for information on quoting: http://atheistforums.org/thread-3469.html

[AngryBiker]

I should also point out something that just came to mind. Even if the constitution doesn't need interpretation, and the founding fathers never meant for there to be a "separation of church and state", that doesn't mean that it isn't a good idea, or that we shouldn't strive to accomplish it.

Sure, the founders were great men; very intelligent and proud leaders. However, they were living in a different time, and our modern values of equality should trump those of the past. Governments should treat their citizens equally, regardless of race, sexual orientation, income, or religion. To make decisions that favour one set of people over another based on an attribute not shared by all citizens is inherently unfair, and imo inherently un-American.

One of my favourite phrases is written in the Declaration of Independence, and despite the fact that I am an atheist and have no concept of a "Creator", I think that what the phrase *means* for government is very important:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

Nobody gets to hold one attribute over another; that is the essence of what America was founded on.

Fair enough, Adrian. I'll give you all of that as long as atheists quit misusing the Constitution to push their agenda.

[Eilonnwy]

Fair enough, Adrian. I'll give you all of that as long as atheists quit misusing the Constitution to push their agenda.

What agenda?

[AngryBiker]

Angrybiker, STOP quoting large posts to make short replies. I've cleaned up two of your posts just, and there are others just as messy here. Keep it up and I will give you a warning.

Please read this post for information on quoting: http://atheistforums.org/thread-3469.html

Sorry, I'm still learning my way around here. All I did was press the 'reply' tag.

[Eilonnwy]

Sorry, I'm still learning my way around here. All I did was press the 'reply' tag.

You can edit the quotes when you make a reply to only just the part you're responding to. OR you can click the main "Add Reply" or just use Quick Reply and mention the username.

It gets very hard to follow threads when huge blocks of text are repeated all over the place.

[AngryBiker]

What agenda?

Read my original post.
I love your Ben Franklin quote, BTW. I believe that Albert Einstein said something very similar.

[Zen Badger]

Fair enough, Adrian. I'll give you all of that as long as atheists quit misusing the Constitution to push their agenda.

As opposed to the religious right misusing it?

[Eilonnwy]

Your original post was a rant about atheists and the first amendment. My fellow atheists here, especially Adrian have provided you with evidence and information that the first amendment protections include those with no religion and that organizations like the ACLU fight for every religion or non-religion equally.

So please, what agenda?