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Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 2:52 pm
Hey all and welcome,
I ran into a presuppositionilist this week.
After a bit of back and forth with him going on about how I have to use reason to justify my beliefs I got hit with this question "How do you know that you are not a brain in a vat?"
This stumped me for a few moments, then I said to him "If I am a brain in a vat then why should I believe anything you say?, why should I believe you when you tell me that some book called the bible actually exists?".
I just went on asking him for proof that he was real, God was real and the bible was real and all not just a figment of my imagination.
He started to appeal to my reason that he and the God of the bible did exist which I thought it was quite funny.
I'm sure he could have countered my clumsy response in some way but it did feel good.
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RE: Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 3:29 pm
You don't know that you're not a brain-in-a-vat. Solipsism is both a logically unassailable position to take, and a completely useless one, so it is taken as axiomatic that our experience of reality is a rough approximation of what is real. It's not practically unassailable, however - because of it's uselessness.
When someone appeals to solipsism, it's time to point and laugh.
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RE: Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 3:38 pm
(November 1, 2016 at 3:29 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: You don't know that you're not a brain-in-a-vat. Solipsism is both a logically unassailable position to take, and a completely useless one, so it is taken as axiomatic that our experience of reality is a rough approximation of what is real. It's not practically unassailable, however - because of it's uselessness.
When someone appeals to solipsism, it's time to point and laugh.
For that matter, whenever someone tries to say that one can't justify one's own sense of reality or one's use of reason without acknowledging the existence of a deity that was lifted from the Canaanites, it's also time to point and laugh.
I'd rather chew broken glass than get dragged into a sophistry marathon with a presuppositionalist. Protestantism is where philosophy goes to die.
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RE: Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 3:39 pm
(November 1, 2016 at 3:29 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: You don't know that you're not a brain-in-a-vat. Solipsism is both a logically unassailable position to take, and a completely useless one, so it is taken as axiomatic that our experience of reality is a rough approximation of what is real. It's not practically unassailable, however - because of it's uselessness.
When someone appeals to solipsism, it's time to point and laugh.
Yep.
There is no answer to hard solipsism.
The thing is, that the presup is also trapped into the same position, of having to use his reason to justify his reason, to believe in his god.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 4:52 pm
It would, however, seem preoposterous that, were I a brain in a vat experiencing what I imagine to be reality, I could have written all the great symphonies, created all of Kubrick's work, painted all Renaissance art etc.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 5:32 pm
CD's answer is the correct answer. After reading OP, I was going to post something almost word-for-word. Solipsism is an empty proposition specifically because of its "profoundness" - either it's false, or it's large enough to contain all other propositions - and all logical systems for evaluating propositions - unchanged within it.
How will we know, when the morning comes, we are still human? - 2D
Don't worry, my friend. If this be the end, then so shall it be.
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RE: Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 6:19 pm
I presuppose that a Welcome is in order. Or is that postsuppose?
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 6:31 pm
(November 1, 2016 at 5:32 pm)TheRealJoeFish Wrote: CD's answer is the correct answer. After reading OP, I was going to post something almost word-for-word. Solipsism is an empty proposition specifically because of its "profoundness" - either it's false, or it's large enough to contain all other propositions - and all logical systems for evaluating propositions - unchanged within it.
Yay, I finally got something right. Broken clock and all that.
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RE: Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 8:27 pm
I don't even bother discussing religion with presuppositionalists. I'm not going to argue my position from a presumption that their god exists and their religion is true.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: Encounter with a Presupp
November 1, 2016 at 11:04 pm
I agree, it was very tedious debating with him.
He seemed more intent on winning the argument rather than winning me over.
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