Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: 20th November 2017, 14:54

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 1 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Ask a Bible college Student
#31
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
(2nd November 2016, 14:53)Whateverist Wrote:
(2nd November 2016, 14:40)Emzap Wrote: Yes! There is a course about world religions, and I've studied various worldviews. The arguments are given for all sides, but with the focus being on the Christian worldview. Professors generally explain opposing world views, but continue to show the ways they are inadequate to explain the world we live in.


Can you tell me why you don't accept an allegorical rather than literal reading of the bible (assuming you don't)?

I accept the literal (historical-grammatical) interpretation of the Bible because that was what the author intended. The authors had a message to tell, and I choose to read based on authorial intent rather than reader response. Literal interpretation is the normal, customary sense. It is the only way to objectively interpret Scripture. Allegory doesn't interpret the text, it reads into it. Its not objective. Theres no way of saying what is right or wrong, and there may be various different interpretations. 

When reading and interpreting Scripture I try to understand what the author was trying to say to the original audience. This requires understanding the historical context of the writing. Then I determine the differences between now and then, and look for the theological principle behind the writing. I look at how consistent it is with the rest of scripture, and then last decide how we should understand and live out the principle today.

(2nd November 2016, 14:56)Homeless Nutter Wrote:
(2nd November 2016, 14:40)Emzap Wrote: Yes! There is a course about world religions, and I've studied various worldviews. The arguments are given for all sides, but with the focus being on the Christian worldview. Professors generally explain opposing world views, but continue to show the ways they are inadequate to explain the world we live in.

Oh, that's nice. But do tell, do the professors also point out ways in which christianity is inadequate to explain the world we live in?

We do look at the arguments against Christianity. However, just like any other belief system (including atheism), faith is needed, because not everything can be explained. There is a lot that we as humans do not know and cannot understand. Generally, as Christians we put our faith in a Bible verse- Deuteronomy 29:29 which says "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

We understand that we are not God, and cannot understand everything. The secret things belong to God. 
Reply
#32
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
(2nd November 2016, 14:56)Emzap Wrote:
(2nd November 2016, 13:57)Jörmungandr Wrote: Why do you believe the bible is true?

I believe the Bible is true because I believe in the God spoken about in the Bible. I have experience the power of God, and He has transformed my life. There is a verse that says that all Scripture (the Bible) is God-breathed, which means that it is inspired by God. 

Also, looking objectively at the New Testament as a historical document, It was written close to the time of the events it talks about, and the earliest copy we have found is within 30 years of the original writing. There are 5800 historical copies found, and the accuracy compared to the originals is incredible. The New Testament as a historical document is historically reliable, which is a good reason to me to believe in it. Internally, it is consistent, even though there are many writers who contributed to the overall Bible who wrote over a long period of time.


And how do you know the impressive otherness of God you've experienced does't emanate entirely from you, and exclusively from each one of us .. with no creator/immortal reward backstory whatsoever?
The kind of believing engaged in by Christians is not neutral, truth seeking believing. It isn't acceptance of the best supported conclusion, not submission to the facts. "True believers" believe heroically, they launch their belief at their chosen target with enthusiasm. While thrusting their belief forward they will brook no but-what-if's. Facts which do not conform are not recognized. 'True' belief is drunk with celebrating certainty, no further quest is required .. only the constant parrying with nay sayers.
Reply
#33
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
Would you not agree that reading is inherently interpretation?
I am John Cena's hip-hop album.
Reply
#34
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
(2nd November 2016, 15:09)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Would you not agree that reading is inherently interpretation?

I would agree. People can make the Bible say anything they want, if they take it out of context. That is part of the reason why there is so much hypocrisy and hate coming from so-called Christians. When I read the Bible, I consider both the context of the passage in light of the rest of Scripture, as well as the historical context of the writing. A historical document should be read as just that- a historical document.
Reply
#35
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
(2nd November 2016, 15:04)Emzap Wrote:
(2nd November 2016, 14:53)Whateverist Wrote: Can you tell me why you don't accept an allegorical rather than literal reading of the bible (assuming you don't)?

I accept the literal (historical-grammatical) interpretation of the Bible because that was what the author intended. The authors had a message to tell, and I choose to read based on authorial intent rather than reader response. Literal interpretation is the normal, customary sense.

Normal in your experience no doubt. But what if the usual in your experience is entirely mistaken? (I know, not your problem.)
 
(2nd November 2016, 15:04)Emzap Wrote: It is the only way to objectively interpret Scripture. Allegory doesn't interpret the text, it reads into it. Its not objective. Theres no way of saying what is right or wrong, and there may be various different interpretations.

Yep, definitely sounds like the red pill alternative to me. If it's comfy slumber you crave, stick the familiar blue pill.

https://youtu.be/zE7PKRjrid4


(2nd November 2016, 15:04)Emzap Wrote: When reading and interpreting Scripture I try to understand what the author was trying to say to the original audience. This requires understanding the historical context of the writing. Then I determine the differences between now and then, and look for the theological principle behind the writing. I look at how consistent it is with the rest of scripture, and then last decide how we should understand and live out the principle today.

But don't you also assume the bible's author(s?) was (were?) divinely inspired? Because if you start off assuming that, why try to dress up any of it as intellectual in nature. Isn't it really just what you like to believe?
The kind of believing engaged in by Christians is not neutral, truth seeking believing. It isn't acceptance of the best supported conclusion, not submission to the facts. "True believers" believe heroically, they launch their belief at their chosen target with enthusiasm. While thrusting their belief forward they will brook no but-what-if's. Facts which do not conform are not recognized. 'True' belief is drunk with celebrating certainty, no further quest is required .. only the constant parrying with nay sayers.
Reply
#36
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
(2nd November 2016, 15:09)Whateverist Wrote:
(2nd November 2016, 14:56)Emzap Wrote: I believe the Bible is true because I believe in the God spoken about in the Bible. I have experience the power of God, and He has transformed my life. There is a verse that says that all Scripture (the Bible) is God-breathed, which means that it is inspired by God. 

Also, looking objectively at the New Testament as a historical document, It was written close to the time of the events it talks about, and the earliest copy we have found is within 30 years of the original writing. There are 5800 historical copies found, and the accuracy compared to the originals is incredible. The New Testament as a historical document is historically reliable, which is a good reason to me to believe in it. Internally, it is consistent, even though there are many writers who contributed to the overall Bible who wrote over a long period of time.


And how do you know the impressive otherness of God you've experienced does't emanate entirely from you, and exclusively from each one of us .. with no creator/immortal reward backstory whatsoever?

Honestly, I do not know for sure. It is an element of faith. Also, I don't believe in the coincidence that when I pray for or about something, and it happens, that it was a result of wishful thinking. I attribute to God what belongs to Him. My life was a mess, but when I put all of my trust in Christ Jesus, I found hope.
Reply
#37
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
Hope you don't mind that I'm conversing with you in a gloves-off manner. I mean you no disrespect in so doing. At base, we really just disagree on how to understand our experience. That doesn't make you unreasonable necessarily and I have no special access to the truth.
The kind of believing engaged in by Christians is not neutral, truth seeking believing. It isn't acceptance of the best supported conclusion, not submission to the facts. "True believers" believe heroically, they launch their belief at their chosen target with enthusiasm. While thrusting their belief forward they will brook no but-what-if's. Facts which do not conform are not recognized. 'True' belief is drunk with celebrating certainty, no further quest is required .. only the constant parrying with nay sayers.
Reply
#38
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
(2nd November 2016, 15:18)Whateverist Wrote:
(2nd November 2016, 15:04)Emzap Wrote: I accept the literal (historical-grammatical) interpretation of the Bible because that was what the author intended. The authors had a message to tell, and I choose to read based on authorial intent rather than reader response. Literal interpretation is the normal, customary sense.

Normal in your experience no doubt.  But what if the usual in your experience is entirely mistaken?  (I know, not your problem.)
 
(2nd November 2016, 15:04)Emzap Wrote: It is the only way to objectively interpret Scripture. Allegory doesn't interpret the text, it reads into it. Its not objective. Theres no way of saying what is right or wrong, and there may be various different interpretations.

Yep, definitely sounds like the red pill alternative to me.  If it's comfy slumber you crave, stick the familiar blue pill.

https://youtu.be/zE7PKRjrid4


(2nd November 2016, 15:04)Emzap Wrote: When reading and interpreting Scripture I try to understand what the author was trying to say to the original audience. This requires understanding the historical context of the writing. Then I determine the differences between now and then, and look for the theological principle behind the writing. I look at how consistent it is with the rest of scripture, and then last decide how we should understand and live out the principle today.

But don't you also assume the bible's author(s?) was (were?) divinely inspired?  Because if you start off assuming that, why try to dress up any of it as intellectual in nature.  Isn't it really just what you like to believe?

I do assume that the Bible's authors were divinely inspired. That gives me a basis for believing that what they wrote was true. From that point I still need to interpret it, and understand it, which is intellectual in nature. I like to believe that about it which is the basis for wanting to understanding it better.
Reply
#39
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
Yes every assumption provides a basis. This one will keep you in sync with your family and community. (Blue pill.)
The kind of believing engaged in by Christians is not neutral, truth seeking believing. It isn't acceptance of the best supported conclusion, not submission to the facts. "True believers" believe heroically, they launch their belief at their chosen target with enthusiasm. While thrusting their belief forward they will brook no but-what-if's. Facts which do not conform are not recognized. 'True' belief is drunk with celebrating certainty, no further quest is required .. only the constant parrying with nay sayers.
Reply
#40
RE: Ask a Bible college Student
(2nd November 2016, 15:04)Emzap Wrote: We do look at the arguments against Christianity.

I don't think you looked at them quite closely enough...

(2nd November 2016, 15:04)Emzap Wrote: However, just like any other belief system (including atheism), faith is needed, because not everything can be explained.

Not knowing is not the same as faith. I'm perfectly fine not knowing things I can't know right now, or perhaps ever. I don't need to make up far-fetched explanations, or invoke magical entities and pretend they're somehow objectively true.

(2nd November 2016, 15:04)Emzap Wrote: There is a lot that we as humans do not know and cannot understand. Generally, as Christians we put our faith in a Bible verse- Deuteronomy 29:29 which says "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

We understand that we are not God, and cannot understand everything. The secret things belong to God. 

Yeah, those are pleasantly sounding platitudes. "We know what we know and we don't know what we don't know." I don't see at which point god is supposed to be necessary, though.

This bible school you go to - does it cost you anything? Because if so, I know of a way you could save a lot of time and money, and perhaps do something constructive, instead of filtering reality through the prism of bronze age mythology. Tongue
“The big trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being smart.” ― Kurt Vonnegut
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Ask a former atheist pool the matey 77 905 15th November 2017, 18:57
Last Post: Grandizer
  Ask a ghost erealmz 44 491 15th November 2017, 09:21
Last Post: Hammy
  Ask a lost soul starting to awaken. MysticKnight 42 427 14th November 2017, 23:24
Last Post: MysticKnight
  Ask your Creator. The Valkyrie 102 788 17th October 2017, 15:37
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Ask an Anime Fan BrokenQuill92 3 116 6th August 2017, 10:22
Last Post: BrokenQuill92
  Ask a teacher on Summer Break Cecelia 64 1330 31st July 2017, 00:39
Last Post: Cecelia
  Ask a theoretical physicist turned teacher, lecturer and author Alex K 85 1905 22nd July 2017, 05:07
Last Post: Alex K
  Ask A Business Analyst Ben Davis 25 567 22nd July 2017, 04:37
Last Post: Ben Davis
  Ask a computer security expert (part 2) Tiberius 31 756 18th July 2017, 15:28
Last Post: Hammy
  Ask a former IV heroin addict AceBoogie 59 2030 11th April 2017, 15:49
Last Post: LastPoet



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)