Your position on naturalism

[Ignorant]

I hold to a kind of philosophical naturalism. Things only exist as something, not as super-somethings. If things act in ways that their something "can't" do (e.g. 'miraculously'), then either it is a previously unknown ability of that thing, or it is the action of some other thing able to do that act within/through the original thing, or some combination of the two.

[Whateverist]

I think, its supernatural, that lifeless chemicals ended up with complex immaterial system like consciousness, which fear, desire, enjoy. Also, space itself, laws of physics, matter just popped in to existence. Its f creepy.

Then you don't believe in a real world?  Those of us who do, believe you can go out and measure stuff and if you keep getting a consistent result you've probably discovered an actual characteristic of the real world.  One of the axioms of being a real world believer is you specifically don't believe things pop into existence.  Pretty sure that is only an option if you choose the supernatural mindset package.  Of course not believing things pop into existence out of nothing doesn't mean we always can tell for sure how a thing has come to be as it is.  But then feeling you have all the answers (hint: goddidit) is also only available with magical thinking.

[Whateverist]

I hold to a kind of philosophical naturalism. Things only exist as something, not as super-somethings. If things act in ways that their something "can't" do (e.g. 'miraculously'), then either it is a previously unknown ability of that thing, or it is the action of some other thing able to do that act within/through the original thing, or some combination of the two.

Hey, look who it is!  Just the person to show this goober how to hold theistic viewpoint without compromising their relationship to the real world.

[purplepurpose]

I think, its supernatural, that lifeless chemicals ended up with complex immaterial system like consciousness, which fear, desire, enjoy. Also, space itself, laws of physics, matter just popped in to existence. Its f creepy.

Then you don't believe in a real world?  Those of us who do, believe you can go out and measure stuff and if you keep getting a consistent result you've probably discovered an actual characteristic of the real world.  One of the axioms of being a real world believer is you specifically don't believe things pop into existence.  Pretty sure that is only an option if you choose the supernatural mindset package.  Of course not believing things pop into existence out of nothing doesn't mean we always can tell for sure how a thing has come to be as it is.  But then feeling you have all the answers (hint: goddidit) is also only available with magical thinking.

I see you point. But theists usually attack people using philosophy - "We pursue life full of good deeds under the guidance of God. Does your egoistical life full of pleasure has any value compared to that?"

After hearing those moral arguments, I agree, my life is all about egoism.

[robvalue]

I hold to a kind of philosophical naturalism. Things only exist as something, not as super-somethings. If things act in ways that their something "can't" do (e.g. 'miraculously'), then either it is a previously unknown ability of that thing, or it is the action of some other thing able to do that act within/through the original thing, or some combination of the two.

That's the most sensibly argued position I've seen a theist take on this subject. You've nailed it there. I guess most theists need some stuff to be "super", they can't just have ordinary old stuff.

I only take the methodological stance to avoid a burden of proof. But I agree that it is a semantic game the supernatural peddler plays.

[bennyboy]

I think, its supernatural, that lifeless chemicals ended up with complex immaterial system like consciousness, which fear, desire, enjoy. Also, space itself, laws of physics, matter just popped in to existence. Its f creepy.

Then you don't believe in a real world?  Those of us who do, believe you can go out and measure stuff and if you keep getting a consistent result you've probably discovered an actual characteristic of the real world.

Some things, like mind, are not measurable.

 One of the axioms of being a real world believer is you specifically don't believe things pop into existence.

Except subatomic particles.
http://www.louisdelmonte.com/virtual-par...-creation/

 Pretty sure that is only an option if you choose the supernatural mindset package.

^ ibid.

[Whateverist]

Then you don't believe in a real world?  Those of us who do, believe you can go out and measure stuff and if you keep getting a consistent result you've probably discovered an actual characteristic of the real world.

Some things, like mind, are not measurable

What you've never counted sheep?

[bennyboy]

Some things, like mind, are not measurable

What you've never counted sheep?

[Excited Penguin]

I hold to a kind of philosophical naturalism. Things only exist as something, not as super-somethings. If things act in ways that their something "can't" do (e.g. 'miraculously'), then either it is a previously unknown ability of that thing, or it is the action of some other thing able to do that act within/through the original thing, or some combination of the two.

So...  The Bible...  All metaphorical, then?

[Ignorant]

I hold to a kind of philosophical naturalism. Things only exist as something, not as super-somethings. If things act in ways that their something "can't" do (e.g. 'miraculously'), then either it is a previously unknown ability of that thing, or it is the action of some other thing able to do that act within/through the original thing, or some combination of the two.

So...  The Bible...  All metaphorical, then?

What makes you suggest that (from what I said)?