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September 15, 2010 at 3:32 pm (This post was last modified: September 15, 2010 at 3:36 pm by tackattack.)
@Skipper... no, I've made it expressly clear above and elsewhere that eternal punishment is not righteous for any crime exhibited in a temporary lifespan. It is not a biblical teaching that your punishment is eternal, that's a theory derived from Plato not the Bible. While a lot of people wish itwere true, it's not in line with what the Bible says. I also agree with your statment "I suggest those qualities of control and exploitation via threats of unjust punishment are more easily attributed to men"
edit for your edit: I don't know. I think learning right from wrong and widening your perspective (both philisophically and intellectually) is a process similar to evolution. As we evolve so does our understanding evolve. If I could use a tube and suck out my knowledge and experience and download it to my kid, what meaning would it be to him. Experience is what gives reality it's realness and just like the old addage goes "If you don't learnfrom yoour mistakes, yoou're boun to repeat them". It supposes an inherint experience of failing and growth.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
September 15, 2010 at 3:44 pm (This post was last modified: September 15, 2010 at 3:48 pm by Skipper.)
What is hell then if not eternal? An honest question.
Because I can find a fair few mentions of "eternal" and "everlasting" fire in the bible, especially in Matthew...he is my least favourite of the gang now.
I know this isn't exactly on topic but wanted to post this because I found it very funny.
Got this off someone from somewhere. Can't remember who or where but had saved it on my computer.
"I have been invited by my friend to a group on facebook called 'so apparently I'm going to hell' which has a list of reasons ,stated by Mr. Micah Armstrong originally of the Assembly of God Church in Miami, of why you can go to hell they include:
Pot Smoking
Cigarette Smoking
Alcohol Drinking
Guitar Playing
Having a Tattoo
Showing Cleavage
Showing Bellybuttons
Girls Showing Their Knees
Girls Showing Their Elbows
Girls Wearing Tight Pants
Girls Wearing Miniskirts
Being Blond
Being Fat
Cursing
Kissing on the Mouth before Marriage
Holding Hands before Marriage
Groping Breast before Marriage
Having Premarital Sex
Masturbation
Having Anal Sex
Having Oral Sex
Being Homosexual
Judging People (He wasn't though, he was being honest)
Being Selfish
Playing Sports
Women Working
Watching BET
Watching MTV
Watching VH1
Watching TNT
Associating With Hollywood
Listening to “Gangsta Rap”, Techno, Christian Bands, and Rock and Roll
Believing in Evolution
Being Catholic
Being Jewish
Being Buddhist
Being Methodist
Being Protestant
Being Mormon
Being Muslim
Being Hindu
Being Agnostic
Being Atheist
Being a Woman (they're still paying for Eve's sin)
Being In a Sorority or Fraternity
Owning a Pet
Sin, Have Sinned, or Plan on Sinning in the Future."
Feel free to point them out if they match you. Looks like I'm in shit since it's supposedly wrong to have oral sex.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
September 15, 2010 at 6:08 pm (This post was last modified: September 15, 2010 at 6:29 pm by chasm.)
(September 15, 2010 at 6:00 pm)Ace Wrote:
I know this isn't exactly on topic but wanted to post this because I found it very funny.
Got this off someone from somewhere. Can't remember who or where but had saved it on my computer.
"I have been invited by my friend to a group on facebook called 'so apparently I'm going to hell' which has a list of reasons ,stated by Mr. Micah Armstrong originally of the Assembly of God Church in Miami, of why you can go to hell they include:
Pot Smoking
Cigarette Smoking
Alcohol Drinking
Guitar Playing
Having a Tattoo
Showing Cleavage
Showing Bellybuttons
Girls Showing Their Knees
Girls Showing Their Elbows
Girls Wearing Tight Pants
Girls Wearing Miniskirts
Being Blond
Being Fat
Cursing
Kissing on the Mouth before Marriage
Holding Hands before Marriage
Groping Breast before Marriage
Having Premarital Sex
Masturbation
Having Anal Sex
Having Oral Sex
Being Homosexual
Judging People (He wasn't though, he was being honest)
Being Selfish
Playing Sports
Women Working
Watching BET
Watching MTV
Watching VH1
Watching TNT
Associating With Hollywood
Listening to “Gangsta Rap”, Techno, Christian Bands, and Rock and Roll
Believing in Evolution
Being Catholic
Being Jewish
Being Buddhist
Being Methodist
Being Protestant
Being Mormon
Being Muslim
Being Hindu
Being Agnostic
Being Atheist
Being a Woman (they're still paying for Eve's sin)
Being In a Sorority or Fraternity
Owning a Pet
Sin, Have Sinned, or Plan on Sinning in the Future."
Feel free to point them out if they match you. Looks like I'm in shit since it's supposedly wrong to have oral sex.
Alcohol Drinking
Guitar Playing
Showing Cleavage
Showing Bellybuttons
Girls Showing Their Knees
Girls Showing Their Elbows
Girls Wearing Tight Pants
Girls Wearing Miniskirts
Being Fat
Cursing
Kissing on the Mouth before Marriage
Holding Hands before Marriage
Groping Breast before Marriage
Having Premarital Sex
Masturbation
Having Anal Sex
Having Oral Sex
Being Homosexual [Does Bisexual count? If so, I'm in].
Judging People [As much as I try not to, I catch myself every once in a while].
Being Selfish
Playing Sports
Women Working
Watching MTV
Watching VH1
Listening to “Gangsta Rap”, Techno, Christian Bands, and Rock and Roll [Christian Bands???]
Believing in Evolution
Being Agnostic
Being Atheist
Being a Woman
Owning a Pet
Sin, Have Sinned, or Plan on Sinning in the Future.
Pot Smoking
Cigarette Smoking
Alcohol Drinking
Guitar Playing
Cursing
Kissing on the Mouth before Marriage
Holding Hands before Marriage
Groping Breast before Marriage
Having Premarital Sex
Masturbation
Having Anal Sex
Having Oral Sex
Judging People
Being Selfish
Playing Sports
Listening to “Gangsta Rap”, Techno, Christian Bands, and Rock and Roll (I assume "Metal" qualifies)
Believing in Evolution
Being Agnostic
Being Atheist
And the best one!
Sin, Have Sinned, or Plan on Sinning in the Future
I plan on smoking a bowl, listening to metal, looking at porn, being on the atheist forum, having a beer and a cigarette, being selfish, judging someone, masturbating, playing guitar and cursing in the next hour
@Skipper- There are plenty of references to Ghenna being forever.. however the soul is not hell the soul goes to hell. In fact the soul (As we're taught by the Bible) is destroyed in hell. While hell may be as eternal as heaven, rest assured Biblical teaching does not say the soul is eternal or that that the sentence in Ghenna is is a soul's eternal torture, simply it's destruction.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
(September 15, 2010 at 6:00 pm)Ace Wrote: "I have been invited by my friend to a group on facebook called 'so apparently I'm going to hell' which has a list of reasons ,stated by Mr. Micah Armstrong originally of the Assembly of God Church in Miami, of why you can go to hell...
Actually, according to orthodox (lower case "o") Christian doctrine, no one goes to hell because they've done any of these things. They go to hell (however one wishes to define the term "hell") because they have rejected Christ. The rest is just icing on the cake.
Just as one cannot be saved by works ("earn your way to heaven" etc) one cannot be condemned by works either. Bill Gates and Stalin accordingly are BOTH in hell-- what they did is irrelevant. Bill Gates philanthropy counts for nothing, but neither does Stalin's murder of millions. It is only because they both are/were atheists that condemns them. What those neurons in your brain do is more important than helping or harming people apparently.
“Society is not a disease, it is a disaster. What a stupid miracle that one can live in it.” ~ E.M. Cioran
(September 15, 2010 at 6:20 pm)theVOID Wrote: Pot Smoking
Cigarette Smoking
Alcohol Drinking
Guitar Playing
Cursing
Kissing on the Mouth before Marriage
Holding Hands before Marriage
Groping Breast before Marriage
Having Premarital Sex
Masturbation
Having Anal Sex
Having Oral Sex
Judging People
Being Selfish
Playing Sports
Listening to “Gangsta Rap”, Techno, Christian Bands, and Rock and Roll (I assume "Metal" qualifies)
Believing in Evolution
Being Agnostic
Being Atheist
And the best one!
Sin, Have Sinned, or Plan on Sinning in the Future
I plan on smoking a bowl, listening to metal, looking at porn, being on the atheist forum, having a beer and a cigarette, being selfish, judging someone, masturbating, playing guitar and cursing in the next hour
Oh no I'm going to hell! But I don't smoke. Will that save me?
Quote:"An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity. " Martin Luther King, Jr.
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
But the fruits of a Christian life glorify God and testify to the path you are walking, regardless of your belief
John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
September 15, 2010 at 8:38 pm (This post was last modified: September 15, 2010 at 8:39 pm by solja247.)
Quote:I have asked in other threads about the reasoning of sending people to hell for all eternity for a finite victemless crime. Didn't quite get an answer.
There isnt any!
Eternal hell was taken from pagan beliefs, about hades, its not supported in the Bible at all!
Its ok to have doubt, just dont let that doubt become the answers.
You dont hate God, you hate the church game.
"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." Saint Augustine
Your mind works very simply: you are either trying to find out what are God's laws in order to follow them; or you are trying to outsmart Him. -Martin H. Fischer
