Is a PhD in Science worth it?

[Jehanne]

I agree with Mathilda, if you have to ask... I did mine first and foremost because I was passiomate about the subject, and the expectation that I would probably be able to make a living afterwards was just one of the conditions that had to be met.

But the idea that you are giving up high paying jobs when doing a PhD is wrong. I've encountered plenty of industry jobs where they explicitely hire PhDs.

Of course, Alex you are in Europe and I am in America, and it seems to me that Europeans value education more than do Americans!  Perhaps this is why Europe has less social ills than does America??

[Little lunch]

It doesn't really matter because robots will be doing your jobs soon anyway. :-)
I bet I'll still be the one cleaning shitty arses though. ;_0

[Alex K]

You also shouldn't underestimate what a harrowing experience doing a science PhD can be. You're toiling away for 3, maybe 4 or 5 years on projects, often working your ass off on weekends for months on end and not getting results because if you're at the frontier of research, many ideas simply don't work, or because you have an idea but are too stupid or lack the skills to pull it off in finite time. I don't think I would have stuck with it and suceeded without a strong passion for the subject. It's too much agony to just do it because you'd like some pretty letters in front of your name at the next job interview.

[Isis]

But, in doing that, they are giving up high paying jobs with great benefits all the while losing out on home equity, compound interest on their retirement, seniority and experience in their careers, etc.  And, then, to top it off, once they have their PhD, they are likely to have accumulated some more debt, but after commencement, many of them are without jobs!  And, worse off, industry, for many jobs, views them as being "over-educated and under-qualified".

I think some of what you are saying is true. It is a tough few years by sounds of it and you will likely accumulate some debt (that goes for every student, really) but I think you are exaggerating how hard it is to find a job with those qualifications.

Having a PhD still opens a lot of doors, so to speak. There are hundreds, maybe even thousands of companies around the world that would hire someone with a PhD.

[Alex K]

All my acquaintances and friends with maths and theoretical physics/astrophysics PhDs are well employed and work e.g. in

- Nuclear technology
- Renewable energy
- Precision optics
- scientific publishing
- teaching and education
- finance (don't underestimate the # of physics phds in finance)
- automotive industry

For my wife who works for a leading scientific publisher, the physics phd was a job requirement because she needs to talk to top scientists all day and evaluate their projects without making a fool of herself.

[Faith No More]

I think it also depends on what field you're going into. If you want to work in something complex like organic chemistry, I think you pretty much need a Ph.D. In other fields you could probably get away a Master's.

My dad and my sister both have Ph.D.'s in their fields, and neither of them seems to regret it. It probably helped, though, that both of them were able to find work pretty quickly. Although, I hear that dissertations can be a real bitch. Like, it's one of those things that can break you if you're not careful.

[I_am_not_mafia]

I nearly had a nervous breakdown writing my dissertation. Funding was only for 3 years so had to write up while working full time in industry with a boss who was a bully and living in a part of the country I despised. One week of working every spare hour was the equivalent of one full days work on it. Spoke to one person in a similar position who gave up instead.

I hit the ground running when I started my PhD but it was only the beginning of the third year when I got results. But my contingency plan was to also develop a load of tools alongside it so if I didnt get my primary results I could talk about the tools instead and radically change the subject of the dissertation. This led to really large dissertation!

[Alex K]

I nearly had a nervous breakdown writing my dissertation. Funding was only for 3 years so had to write up while working full time in industry with a boss who was a bully and living in a part of the country I despised. One week of working every spare hour was the equivalent of one full days work on it. Spoke to one person in a similar position who gave up instead.

I hit the ground running when I started my PhD but it was only the beginning of the third year when I got results. But my contingency plan was to also develop a load of tools alongside it so if I didnt get my primary results I could talk about the tools instead and radically change the subject of the dissertation.  This led to  really large dissertation!

My DFG scholarship also ran exactly for 3 years and I had to do without pay for three months, and then finish it on the side while working on my first research job. It's only fitting that I submitted on April 1

[RoadRunner79]

Of course, I am talking about people who are just "good students", and not people who are brilliant, such as Stephen Hawking, whose destiny it is to teach at Cambridge.  Having said that, it seems to me that Universities are operating a bit of a pyramid scheme, in that they can attract a lot of very talented individuals to become graduate students, whom they pay low wages to, who then perform the work of the University, such as teaching undergraduates, grading papers, etc.  And, if they are one of the 60 or so percent, they can, after 4 to 8 years, get their PhD in a very nice commencement ceremony.

But, in doing that, they are giving up high paying jobs with great benefits all the while losing out on home equity, compound interest on their retirement, seniority and experience in their careers, etc.  And, then, to top it off, once they have their PhD, they are likely to have accumulated some more debt, but after commencement, many of them are without jobs!  And, worse off, industry, for many jobs, views them as being "over-educated and under-qualified".

And, so, short of being brilliant (which usually means being born brilliant), "Is a PhD in Science really worth it?"

I can't speak to the particulars of your area, but I went through something a little similar a while ago (albeit looking at a lesser degree going for a Bachelors degree from an Associate).  There are more things to consider than just money.  What work you can do afterwords (or are likely to), pay, where you might need to live to do so; as well as cost. 

For me; going back to school, wasn't going to make me anymore money, wasn't going to change what I was doing (although I may learn a few things; but,   I have to constantly learn now anyways).  Really about the only reason to do it, is there are some employers (usually large corporations) who want the piece of paper. I worked with one guy, who was looking for a change; showed his work to a potential employer, and was told - It was far more complicated, than anything he would do for them, but they could not hire him, because of his degree.   And I have worked with a number of people, who really can't do the job, but the had the papers to get them there.

As well we have a very talented Engineer, who originally went to Culinary school.  He enjoyed it, but quickly found out that you have to move to a big city, and even then it may take years and a little bit of luck, to make any money at it. 

So my suggestion is to look at all things, weigh them to what you want, and what you think you can do.  Also look at what the likely outcome is, and see if everything seems probable to your goals.  For me, it's not all about bragging about my degree, or what school I went to.  It's about what I do, and supporting a lifestyle that I enjoy.  If you can't tell, I'm not all about education just for education's sake or prestige (although I would be a prick; and not answer anyone who didn't call me doctor if I had the degree )

[The Valkyrie]

Become a creationists.

Then you can have your very own Ph.D. from a non accredited "school" really cheaply.