Religious Background

[TheBeardedDude]

A literal reading of the Bible left me with a callous, flawed, vengeful, and mean-spirited god. This didn't mesh with my views of a loving God (my views at the time). So I looked for a way of finding what I meant by god and what that god's qualities were. Started off within Christianity (basically I just left southern baptism first) in order to find a more interpretative view of the Bible, only to realize that if the Bible required interpretation then there was no way of discerning objective truth from it since anyone can interpret the Bible differently (including literally), regardless of their status (considered an authority or not). With no objective standard to compare my interpretation to (since even a cursory glance at the facts refute a literal interpretation), I realized the Bible was indistinguishable from fiction. Then I realized that's what it effectively is (mythology).

Cheers
TheBeardedDude

If everything you read requires interpretation and therefore can't be trusted, your reasoning would be an infinite regress, and nothing could ever be known.

Regardless, what do you mean by interpretation? Do you think that the plan of salvation outlined in the NT and the subsequent instructions for Christian living is open to different meanings?  This is the definition of being a Christian and is pretty easy to find in the NT. It seems you have extrapolated your feeling on certain passages in the OT to the NT. What justified that conclusion?

I never said everything requires interpretation. What I said is there are 2 options for the Bible:
1) literal (and that can't be true based on what we know about the universe, earth, and life)
2) interpretation, but with no objective standard to weigh one's interpretation against (and no evidence to substantiate your interpretation) you're left with a series of unverifiable beliefs that are indistinguishable from fiction/mythology. Considering how other mythologies work, Christianity fit it to the lowercase t (that's a crucifixion pun)


Cheers
TheBeardedDude

[Der/die AtheistIn]

I was born into a secular Jewish household, although my Dad had to convert, his family were Welsh Methodists. Converted to keep grandparents happily despite my Mum and Dad being lifelong atheists.

I have never been religious remotely, and wasn't particularly interested in religion growing up in London. But I then lived for a long time in Alberta Canada and Texas, USA. In both these places I was amazed by the sniffling nature of the surrounding religious groups and the power and wealth that they were able to wield. I got particularly annoyed when I started meeting creationists and could not believe the level of BS they were spouting and the corruption of the scientific education they want to foist on the young.

In Texas, I had to help protect women from abuse when they were going to one of the very few places for the abortion of an unwanted foetus. The vitriol hurled at these poor women, or the cloying and tawdry faux humility made me want to puke.

Anywho, always been an atheist, enjoy chatting with people. And you would never believe I am of Jewish ancestry cos' I look like a poster child for the third reich, blonde haired, blue-eyed and tall. So I guess somewhere in my past something interesting happened.

Hey-ho!

I on the other hand have brown curly hair with a tint of blond, and my eyes are a bluish green. I'm not very tall, but I'm also not short.

[Succubus]

The catholic school I attended had a very severe Carmelite infestation. The ripping yarns were just too much, even at six/seven years old I spotted the plot holes in the story. I've never looked back.

---

I on the other hand have brown curly hair with a tint of blond, and my eyes are a bluish green. I'm not very tall, but I'm also not short.

What! So you're not really Helen Mirren?

[Der/die AtheistIn]

The catholic school I attended had a very severe Carmelite infestation. The ripping yarns were just too much, even at six/seven years old I spotted the plot holes in the story. I've never looked back.

I'm sorry you had to go through this.

[Succubus]

The catholic school I attended had a very severe Carmelite infestation. The ripping yarns were just too much, even at six/seven years old I spotted the plot holes in the story. I've never looked back.

I'm sorry you had to go through this.

Oh indeed did I go through it, we all did, fingers almost broken by the swishy stick. But then I do have those bastards to thank for making me a rational thinker.

Y'ALL MUST WATCH THIS VID!!!







Fuckit Fuckit Fuckit. Here's the link. Dave Allen on religion.

[SteveII]

Grew up in the Bible Belt of the southern US. Wasn't raised in an overly religious household but eventually I started wanting to attend church with my aunt, uncle, and cousins. We went to a southern baptist church. Got pretty serious with it by middle school but then stopped going to church by high school. Senior year of high school I start going to youth services at a different southern baptist church. Realize while there that I don't buy the youth ministers literal interpretation of the Bible. Then realize that I don't trust other people's interpretations either. This leads me to conclude that I have no objective standard to compare my interpretation to, which is a big deal if you're dealing with something that is supposed to be an objective truth about the universe. Once I realize this, I decide to start figuring out what I believe and why as well as what other people believe and why. The error I made here is that I still assumed that belief in a god was a more rational starting point, so I didn't question whether or not I actually believed in a god. Eventually I realize my error (after a few years) and ask myself if I believe in a god and I realize the answer was no. That's when the real fun began because that meant I had to start from square 1 to figure out what beliefs actually where since I was an atheist now


Cheers
TheBeardedDude

There was a time when I also thought that believing that a God exists was more rational. At first I thought that God controlls almost everything, than that He controlls just some things. I started to look at the world around me and saw that everything had a cause and an effect, and a God that controlls that was improbable. So I became a deist. Then I've put myself the question, if God created the Universe, why would He not interfere in it? And why would He create such a big Universe? Why so many humans? Why so many planets whithout life? Why some creatures have rationality while others don't? And so on. I then become an agnostic atheist, and I'm proud to be one!

Just discussing...not trying to offend.

Did it occur to you that there might have been answers to these questions and that your understanding of Christianity might not be complete? The reason I say this is that from what you have posted, your lack of belief seems to be based on a very shallow understanding of what it is your church believes. Even if you are more naturally prone to examining the details than your parents/family, isn't dismissing their religions as 'wrong' (no matter how nicely you characterize it) without examining it in detail a little disrespectful? Even if they are unable to articulate answers to your questions, that does not mean there are no answers.

For example (from your example) the fact that nature shows cause an effect in no way even remotely implies that God is improbable. That would be the inverse of the "God of the Gaps" fallacy (an argument that should not be used in either direction).

[Der/die AtheistIn]

The catholic school I attended had a very severe Carmelite infestation. The ripping yarns were just too much, even at six/seven years old I spotted the plot holes in the story. I've never looked back.

---

I on the other hand have brown curly hair with a tint of blond, and my eyes are a bluish green. I'm not very tall, but I'm also not short.

What! So you're not really Helen Mirren?

I din't know my avatar is Helen Mirren, I didn't even knew she existed. I found this picture random in internet and put it.

[Succubus]

I din't know my avatar is Helen Mirren, I didn't even knew she existed. I found this picture random in internet and put it.

You are not the first, and I'm sure you won't be the last to make the great mishtake of taking me seriously.

[SteveII]

If everything you read requires interpretation and therefore can't be trusted, your reasoning would be an infinite regress, and nothing could ever be known.

Regardless, what do you mean by interpretation? Do you think that the plan of salvation outlined in the NT and the subsequent instructions for Christian living is open to different meanings?  This is the definition of being a Christian and is pretty easy to find in the NT. It seems you have extrapolated your feeling on certain passages in the OT to the NT. What justified that conclusion?

I never said everything requires interpretation. What I said is there are 2 options for the Bible:
1) literal (and that can't be true based on what we know about the universe, earth, and life)
2) interpretation, but with no objective standard to weigh one's interpretation against (and no evidence to substantiate your interpretation) you're left with a series of unverifiable beliefs that are indistinguishable from fiction/mythology. Considering how other mythologies work, Christianity fit it to the lowercase t (that's a crucifixion pun)


Cheers
TheBeardedDude

1. If your hangup is on the first three chapters of Genesis, then you have to realize that many many Christians do not take the story to be literal. Augustine 1700 years ago did not think that the creation account was literal. There are good reasons to think the six days were not really six days.

a. not written in the same Hebrew as the rest of the book of Genesis--but in an older Hebrew.
b. poetic formulation of the versus
c. how it is clearly not meant to be in order because even by ancient reasoning, day and evening don't come before creating the sun.
d. How it very likely was the story passed down in order to draw a healthy distinction between other creation myths, where nature is endowed with spiritual qualities, to the correct view that the universe is an orderly thing not to be worshiped.

2. You are over-stating your case about interpretation. The core theology is quite easy to ascertain from the NT. Common sense and a little reading for context usually takes care of the rest. Perhaps give an example?? 

3. Since there are good reasons to believe the NT is true, the events described there are indeed distinguishable from mythology.

[JackRussell]

I never said everything requires interpretation. What I said is there are 2 options for the Bible:
1) literal (and that can't be true based on what we know about the universe, earth, and life)
2) interpretation, but with no objective standard to weigh one's interpretation against (and no evidence to substantiate your interpretation) you're left with a series of unverifiable beliefs that are indistinguishable from fiction/mythology. Considering how other mythologies work, Christianity fit it to the lowercase t (that's a crucifixion pun)


Cheers
TheBeardedDude

1. If your hangup is on the first three chapters of Genesis, then you have to realize that many many Christians do not take the story to be literal. Augustine 1700 years ago did not think that the creation account was literal. There are good reasons to think the six days were not really six days.

a. not written in the same Hebrew as the rest of the book of Genesis--but in an older Hebrew.
b. poetic formulation of the versus
c. how it is clearly not meant to be in order because even by ancient reasoning, day and evening don't come before creating the sun.
d. How it very likely was the story passed down in order to draw a healthy distinction between other creation myths, where nature is endowed with spiritual qualities, to the correct view that the universe is an orderly thing not to be worshiped.

2. You are over-stating your case about interpretation. The core theology is quite easy to ascertain from the NT. Common sense and a little reading for context usually takes care of the rest. Perhaps give an example?? 

3. Since there are good reasons to believe the NT is true, the events described there are indeed distinguishable from mythology.

Only 3. Good reasons to believe the NT is true, well it does refer to some places that we know existed at the time, for the rest, moot, please provide the evidence and then I will introduce you to Min.