Scarface

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Well, crime actually DOES pay often enough, lest no one would be committing such crimes.

Moral of the story IMO, is actually: 
Don't get high off your own supply!

And, maybe "Live by the sword, die by the sword"....if I were inclined to get preachy about it.

No sorry, that is Trump talk to me, "It is only illegal if you get caught". 

The character is a bad guy period. Doing the right thing is doing it even when nobody is watching.

In real life helping non violent users I get. But really? Don't tell me you would want to live in a neighborhood in real life, rich middle or  poor, where you had sickos shooting people in the streets or in mansions like a civil war.

Nope, Tony dies in the end so I don't see how that paid off. 

Yes it is just a movie, so I get the sarcasm in your post. But no, sorry I don't see even the character as a good guy. A great bad guy as a character, but not a good guy as a character.

---

What a contemptible lie that's always been.  Of course crime pays.  It pays short term, long term, creates profitable economic opportunities for the criminal's associates, spurs financial activity, has measurable 'ripple' effects into non-criminal areas, and gives cops something to do.  Granted, it's a high risk occupation (usually), but the risk is almost always commensurate with the reward.

In fact, it's hard to think of anything that pays more than crime.

Boru

No, not in the context of this movie plot.

Stealing a loaf of  bread to feed your family when you have no food is far more understandable than being a greedy fuck. Tony was not only a criminal but also a greedy fuck. You must have missed the mother character who rejected his blood money RIGHTFULLY.

Crime works yes just like deception in evolution works. Yes you can see a video of a crock and a lion in Africa fighting over calf. But in the context of empathy might does not make right and in that context no, Tony only was a success short term but that success did not make him moral or compassionate. 

i like the movie too, but I only see him as a bad guy, just like I see the real El Chopo. It is just as stupid to elevate Tony as a moral hero as it would be to do so for Satan/Lucifer. 

The character is just that, and I love a great bad guy, but no, in the context of that plot, saying crime pays, misses the context of the long term damage of social stability. Otherwise Maddof is a hero too.

Ok, please point out where I said or implied that Tony was: a) moral, b) compassionate,  or c) a hero.  I pretty adept when it comes to telling the bad guys from the good guys, both in films and in real life.  I don't need you to lecture me about this, tyvm, especially since I never said anything positive about Tony Montana in the first place. 

What I said was (and I'll say it again, since both your reading comprehension and your habit of addressing points that no one made seem up to their usual standards) is that crime pays.  And it does - it pays handsomely.  This isn't a moral judgement or an opinion, and isn't subject to rational debate.  Criminals get paid for the work they do, and all the off-target moralizing you can't muster won't alter the fact.

Maybe YOU missed the scenes of Tony Montana's insanely opulent home, his luxury and sports cars, his gang of hangers-on, and his not inconsiderable armoury.   Guess what, sunshine?  All of this was paid for by crime.  And this isn't just limited to films - it happens in the real world, and is as hard to deny as a fist in the face.

If you respond to this, please try to stay on point.  I'm not talking about Tony's moral fibre (non-existent), his character (reprehensible), or whether it is right or wrong to make your fortune as the head of a drug cartel (it's wrong).  But 'Crime does not pay'?  Grow up.

Boru

[Rev. Rye]

Humans have a bullshit fascination with "rebels" and "outcasts". Even the old movie "Rebel Without A Cause" everyone back then loved James Dean's Character, despite in reality any strife your parents have is not on you. But in the movie, his dad is not the alpha male and his mom is the leader.

In reality the movie about Tony or Dean should not be based on testosterone and men "proving themselves". 

if you like either like Al's or Dean's character, as a character, FINE. But it is still not ok to sell cocaine and it is still not ok to try to get pussy in a street drag because your dad listens to his wife.

I'm sorry, but Jim Stark and Tony Montana aren't really morally comparable. Tony Montana was a ruthless criminal (even in his Cuban
days) whose ruthlessness is dwelled upon, but was thrown into sharp relief by his relatively few humanizing qualities (his unwillingness to kill kids and his admittedly-borderline-incestuous affection for his sister Gina.)

Jim Stark, by contrast, seems to be a generally nice guy whose ability to thrive is hampered by the combination of his dysfunctional family life, getting in with the wrong crowd, and an increasingly meaningless universe (remember the planetarium scenes? Even from the clips in La La Land? They're crucial, theme-relevant scenes for understanding the film.)

Jim does not initiate any criminal activity, stands up and befriends Plato on his first day at school, is friendly to those who have shown him kindness, and when the Chickie Run ends up in a death, he actually GOES OUT OF HIS WAY TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS ROLE IN IT. Even as his parents try to downplay it, he insists "but I am involved!" He even jumps to the front of the line at the police station to turn himself in. How much of this sounds like Tony Montana?

Really, Jim is not, in fact, the titular Rebel Without a Cause. That dishonor really belongs to Sal Mineo's character Plato. Given that he's introduced in the police station being questioned over shooting puppies, and director Nicholas Ray himself stated he was the real rebel in the film, one would expect more people to pick up on that.

And, really, in case you wonder why people have the obsession with outcasts that they do, it's because a lot of us know, on some level, that our society is really lacking. That may not excuse the shit they do, but it really shouldn't be surprising that things like that happen.

[Athene]

I wasn't accusing anyone of anything. I am speaking from my own experience of having seen friends and co workers in my 50 years give me their take on it which is less than, "DONT DO THAT'. 

Humans have a bullshit fascination with "rebels" and "outcasts". Even the old movie "Rebel Without A Cause" everyone back then loved James Dean's Character, despite in reality any strife your parents have is not on you. But in the movie, his dad is not the alpha male and his mom is the leader. 

In reality the movie about Tony or Dean should not be based on testosterone and men "proving themselves". 

if you like either like Al's or Dean's character, as a character, FINE. But it is still not ok to sell cocaine and it is still not ok to try to get pussy in a street drag because your dad listens to his wife.

Who said it's okay to sell cocaine and do that, uh...other thing you were going on about?

Failure to accept your DEMAND that "Crime doesn't pay" be the precise moral takeaway of the story, doesn't necessarily mean that one holds the belief of the title character being a hero/good guy, Brian. I'm certain you don't need me to tell you that, though.

Unless you do.

Do you?

[Rev. Rye]

Who said it's okay to sell cocaine and do that, uh...other thing you were going on about?

Failure to accept your DEMAND that "Crime doesn't pay" be the precise moral takeaway of the story, doesn't necessarily mean that one holds the belief of the title character being a hero/good guy, Brian. I'm certain you don't need me to tell you that, though.

And, of course, even being blatant in one's moral doesn't necessarily mean the audience will give a crap about it. Just look at the career of Charlie Brooker. He starts out making a fake TV guide called TVGoHome that was, in its day, ranked up there with The Onion in terms of parody sites, but he stopped doing it in 2003 because he realised that real TV was getting as fucked up as the shows he was making up. Hell, he even personally turned one into a series, even if he changed the name from Cunt to Nathan Barley. And now, with Black Mirror, it seems that the world is hell-bent on making all the disturbing technological advances in the series into cold, hard, realities.

Brooker is not, and never has been, in any way, subtle about the shit he's talking about being bad things, but that hasn't stopped the world from remaking itself in his image.

[Losty]

I hate the movie Scarface. Ugh. When I was married I lived 7 years with a poster of Tony Montana on my living room wall