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I still love that movie even today, but maybe not for the reasons you think.
Being a fan of the Friday The 13th original four, the one thing I would never want to hear the producers of Scarface to ever claim is that they were not trying to make money off of gore and violence. It would be stupid for them to even claim that.
Now, having said that, the reason I love that movie, looking back at it now, and unfortunately, back then, and even today, some look at Tony as a hero, or a "tragic hero" because he wouldn't kill the diplomat's kids. Nope, sorry, Tony in that movie was still a flat out monster and criminal with no redeeming qualities. Not killing the kids did not take away the fact he put his own sister's life in jeopardy and got her killed.
But even that is not my point in all this. I like the movie because in it, when he shows up to his mothers house, she tells him basically, "You are a piece of shit, I don't want you here". Even his girlfriend later to be wife, got wise and left before the shit went down and spared her own life. But in the end, right under the statue of the planet with the slogan, "The world is yours" he ends up getting murdered. Moral of the story, CRIME DOES NOT PAY!
Now dont get me wrong, I don't want any of this to be confused with petty non distributing non violent users. But that is a different story.
Al was a great bad guy in that movie, but Tony was a public enemy #1 character in that movie.
What a contemptible lie that's always been. Of course crime pays. It pays short term, long term, creates profitable economic opportunities for the criminal's associates, spurs financial activity, has measurable 'ripple' effects into non-criminal areas, and gives cops something to do. Granted, it's a high risk occupation (usually), but the risk is almost always commensurate with the reward.
In fact, it's hard to think of anything that pays more than crime.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
July 7, 2017 at 7:01 am (This post was last modified: July 7, 2017 at 7:11 am by Brian37.)
(July 6, 2017 at 9:57 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Well, crime actually DOES pay often enough, lest no one would be committing such crimes.
Moral of the story IMO, is actually:
Don't get high off your own supply!
And, maybe "Live by the sword, die by the sword"....if I were inclined to get preachy about it.
No sorry, that is Trump talk to me, "It is only illegal if you get caught".
The character is a bad guy period. Doing the right thing is doing it even when nobody is watching.
In real life helping non violent users I get. But really? Don't tell me you would want to live in a neighborhood in real life, rich middle or poor, where you had sickos shooting people in the streets or in mansions like a civil war.
Nope, Tony dies in the end so I don't see how that paid off.
Yes it is just a movie, so I get the sarcasm in your post. But no, sorry I don't see even the character as a good guy. A great bad guy as a character, but not a good guy as a character.
(July 7, 2017 at 4:04 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
Quote:Moral of the story, CRIME DOES NOT PAY!
What a contemptible lie that's always been. Of course crime pays. It pays short term, long term, creates profitable economic opportunities for the criminal's associates, spurs financial activity, has measurable 'ripple' effects into non-criminal areas, and gives cops something to do. Granted, it's a high risk occupation (usually), but the risk is almost always commensurate with the reward.
In fact, it's hard to think of anything that pays more than crime.
Boru
No, not in the context of this movie plot.
Stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family when you have no food is far more understandable than being a greedy fuck. Tony was not only a criminal but also a greedy fuck. You must have missed the mother character who rejected his blood money RIGHTFULLY.
Crime works yes just like deception in evolution works. Yes you can see a video of a crock and a lion in Africa fighting over calf. But in the context of empathy might does not make right and in that context no, Tony only was a success short term but that success did not make him moral or compassionate.
i like the movie too, but I only see him as a bad guy, just like I see the real El Chopo. It is just as stupid to elevate Tony as a moral hero as it would be to do so for Satan/Lucifer.
The character is just that, and I love a great bad guy, but no, in the context of that plot, saying crime pays, misses the context of the long term damage of social stability. Otherwise Maddof is a hero too.
Honestly, I have similar thoughts about A Clockwork Orange, which I actually consider my favorite film of all time. It's the last third that really makes it. Fun fact: a few weeks ago, I saw a kid of about ten with a copy of the DVD at the library. I was not sure whether to congratulate his taste or to worry about his mental state (although he was apparently familiar with Jonestown). Maybe if I asked
Him about the ending, I might have had my answer.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.
I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
(July 7, 2017 at 9:33 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: Honestly, I have similar thoughts about A Clockwork Orange, which I actually consider my favorite film of all time. It's the last third that really makes it. Fun fact: a few weeks ago, I saw a kid of about ten with a copy of the DVD at the library. I was not sure whether to congratulate his taste or to worry about his mental state (although he was apparently familiar with Jonestown). Maybe if I asked
Him about the ending, I might have had my answer.
That movie disturbed me even as much as "I Spit On Your Grave".
If you take movies just as that sure, one can get into them. But no matter what, they are never reality.
In real life most sane people would not want a Tony Montana living next to them.
(July 7, 2017 at 9:33 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: Honestly, I have similar thoughts about A Clockwork Orange, which I actually consider my favorite film of all time. It's the last third that really makes it. Fun fact: a few weeks ago, I saw a kid of about ten with a copy of the DVD at the library. I was not sure whether to congratulate his taste or to worry about his mental state (although he was apparently familiar with Jonestown). Maybe if I asked
Him about the ending, I might have had my answer.
That movie disturbed me even as much as "I Spit On Your Grave".
If you take movies just as that sure, one can get into them. But no matter what, they are never reality.
In real life most sane people would not want a Tony Montana living next to them.
Presumably, ACO disturbing you as much as "I Spit on Your Grave" points to two options: 1) The prospect that, in a given conflict, all sides can ultimately be equally monstrous (honestly, my big takeaway from the film) or 2) You're probably really sheltered when it comes to cinematic violence. Maybe by 1971's standards, it was exceptionally violent, even though it's not even the most violent film made that year by a critically-acclaimed expatriate director whose previous film won a single Oscar at the 41st Academy Awards (see: Polanksi's Macbeth).
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.
I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
I like analyising films but I really think that there's not much of a moral in the story.
You mentioned Tony's wife (Elvira), who was previously Frank Lopez's wife before Frank got killed.
What's the moral of her story? Basically suck the right dick and make sure you get out of there before you get killed.
Also there was Sosa, the biggest criminal of them all and the richest of them all who seemingly had a great time the whole way through that film in a huge mansion.
I like the film because it looks very cool, it does make violence look glamourous.
I think it hasn't aged well in a sense that it's too easy to make fun of some of the scenes in the film.
This is people making fun of scarface for 10 mins straight, the mongage scene.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Well, crime actually DOES pay often enough, lest no one would be committing such crimes.
Moral of the story IMO, is actually:
Don't get high off your own supply!
And, maybe "Live by the sword, die by the sword"....if I were inclined to get preachy about it.
No sorry, that is Trump talk to me, "It is only illegal if you get caught".
The character is a bad guy period. Doing the right thing is doing it even when nobody is watching.
In real life helping non violent users I get. But really? Don't tell me you would want to live in a neighborhood in real life, rich middle or poor, where you had sickos shooting people in the streets or in mansions like a civil war.
Nope, Tony dies in the end so I don't see how that paid off.
Yes it is just a movie, so I get the sarcasm in your post. But no, sorry I don't see even the character as a good guy. A great bad guy as a character, but not a good guy as a character.
Lol...Dude, where did you pull all of this extraneous, made-up crappola from? I didn't say the character wasn't a bad guy.
(July 7, 2017 at 7:01 am)Brian37 Wrote: No sorry, that is Trump talk to me, "It is only illegal if you get caught".
The character is a bad guy period. Doing the right thing is doing it even when nobody is watching.
In real life helping non violent users I get. But really? Don't tell me you would want to live in a neighborhood in real life, rich middle or poor, where you had sickos shooting people in the streets or in mansions like a civil war.
Nope, Tony dies in the end so I don't see how that paid off.
Yes it is just a movie, so I get the sarcasm in your post. But no, sorry I don't see even the character as a good guy. A great bad guy as a character, but not a good guy as a character.
Lol...Dude, where did you pull all of this extraneous, made-up crappola from? I didn't say the character wasn't a bad guy.
Are YOU high?
Don't put words in my mouth, por favor.
Thanks.
I wasn't accusing anyone of anything. I am speaking from my own experience of having seen friends and co workers in my 50 years give me their take on it which is less than, "DONT DO THAT'.
Humans have a bullshit fascination with "rebels" and "outcasts". Even the old movie "Rebel Without A Cause" everyone back then loved James Dean's Character, despite in reality any strife your parents have is not on you. But in the movie, his dad is not the alpha male and his mom is the leader.
In reality the movie about Tony or Dean should not be based on testosterone and men "proving themselves".
if you like either like Al's or Dean's character, as a character, FINE. But it is still not ok to sell cocaine and it is still not ok to try to get pussy in a street drag because your dad listens to his wife.
![[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/yxR97P23/harmlesskitchen.png)
