Ask a teacher on Summer Break

[Kernel Sohcahtoa]

I'm a high school history teacher, and currently on summer vacation.  So I figure I have time for one of these now.

I apologize if my question has already been asked, but out of curiosity, how do you go about instructing students who are gifted and talented?  Based on your experience, what are the main challenges involved in instructing these individuals, and how can a teacher best go about ensuring that these students develop their abilities and don't end up hating school and becoming underachievers? Thanks for your time and attention.

P.S. I admire your profession as a teacher and the patience and dedication that is requisite for success in this field; you're a better person than I am.  Live long and prosper.

[J a c k]

I'm a high school history teacher, and currently on summer vacation.  So I figure I have time for one of these now.

I apologize if my question has already been asked, but out of curiosity, how do you go about instructing students who are gifted and talented?  Based on your experience, what are the main challenges involved in instructing these individuals, and how can a teacher best go about ensuring that these students develop their abilities and don't end up hating school and becoming underachievers? Thanks for your time and attention.

P.S. I admire your profession as a teacher and the patience and dedication that is requisite for success in this field; you're a better person than I am.  Live long and prosper.

This is a good question. I've been told to start looking for programs for gifted students for my little one to avoid the underachieving problem, but our rural area has nothing for him. His psychiatrist says that it's likely the school will blame his lack of commitment to the fact that he's autistic, but he gets bored easily when he's not being challenged.

Good question, Kernel. Maybe teachers don't get to be creative anymore or able to cater to an individual student, but Cecelia, do you participate in any programs for gifted students, have participated, or know of anything that has worked?

[brewer]

Does your school offer life skills classes/modules? The number of young adults I encounter that are lacking abilities to: maintain a car, do simple home repairs, set a budget, cook, understand credit cards or credit ratings, apply for a job or loan, select a bank account, write a resume, .............. amazes me.  

How old do I sound?

[Cecelia]

I spent the senior year at a high school in TX and took a pretty decent AP calculus class. But still, I noticed that we got a very large amount of homework of the same type (simplify these 20 expressions). Lots of quantity, little variety, way more than I myself do assign.

I wonder if it's an American thing.  I remember back when I was in high school my math teacher would often assign absurd amounts of homework.  And as a result--I hated math.  "Do even numbered problems 1-100 for homework.  Due tomorrow."  (always the ones that weren't in the back of the book so you know... we could actually check our work)

I apologize if my question has already been asked, but out of curiosity, how do you go about instructing students who are gifted and talented?  Based on your experience, what are the main challenges involved in instructing these individuals, and how can a teacher best go about ensuring that these students develop their abilities and don't end up hating school and becoming underachievers? Thanks for your time and attention.

P.S. I admire your profession as a teacher and the patience and dedication that is requisite for success in this field; you're a better person than I am.  Live long and prosper.

I haven't taught many particularly gifted students.  But I think it's important to engage those students, and challenge them.  I'd say the biggest challenge is actually doing it, because you have so many students.  I usually over over 100 each year.  And you want to dedicate your time to the ones that need your help--and on the surface gifted students don't need your help.  They're straight A students who could probably do the work without you ever telling them anything.  But they're on another level from the rest of the students, which means they can become bored with the work quicker.  You can't teach at their speed, because you'd leave the rest of the class too far behind.   With history it's not too difficult, I think.  I like to get all of my students to take interest in the subject.  I mean history is a bloody subject filled with wars, political intrigue... and pretty much everything that would excite most people.  And that's the real meat of the subject.   And there's so much to History too--I mean I don't even cover roughly a quarter of what could be taught.  I'd love so much to get more into some subjects.  Passing that passion on to students--gifted or not--makes school a better place for everyone.

Good question, Kernel. Maybe teachers don't get to be creative anymore or able to cater to an individual student, but Cecelia, do you participate in any programs for gifted students, have participated, or know of anything that has worked?

No, I've never worked in any programs for gifted students.  I've worked with a couple of students who were gifted, but not in any specific program.  I'm guessing you've already checked out the NAGC Programming Standards?

Does your school offer life skills classes/modules? The number of young adults I encounter that are lacking abilities to: maintain a car, do simple home repairs, set a budget, cook, understand credit cards or credit ratings, apply for a job or loan, select a bank account, write a resume, .............. amazes me.  

How old do I sound?

No, our school doesn't offer those sorts of classes.  Though usually students do learn to make a resume in English Class.  I'm not surprised a lot of young people lack those abilities.  For that matter a lot of older folks don't know how to set a budget.    Personally I can't cook--but even if you tried to teach me (and my husband has) I wouldn't be able to.  But they do teach home economics in middle school.     I'd think most kids learn to maintain a car from their parents though.  (I mean I can't change oil in my car--but I know I have to every 3-4k miles)

How old do you sound?  I'd guess maybe mid 40's to early 50's?  *hides*

[popeyespappy]

Care to comment on de Grasse Tyson's recent tweet that the rise of flat-Earthers is some of the best evidence for the failure of our education system?

[Cecelia]

Care to comment on de Grasse Tyson's recent tweet that the rise of flat-Earthers is some of the best evidence for the failure of our education system?

I think his comments are more likely to lead to the rise of flat-earthers than our education system.  The idea that our education system is failing is the part these flat-earthers see.  They don't care about the rest of it--so in a way it validates their opinions without even meaning to  I mean for starters..  you learn about Christopher Columbus and Magellan in school--as early as elementary school actually.  In 1492, Columbus Sailed the Ocean Blue.  The Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria.  These are typically things schoolchildren learn.

Our school system isn't quite up to snuff--but it's getting better.  And attitudes that it's 'failing' prevail, allowing people to ignore facts because they are presented by 'educated' people.  It allows them to say that schools are nothing more than indoctrination centers.  (And that's exactly what they say).

It'd be like saying "The fact that we haven't cured cancer is the best evidence for the failure of science."  It's not fair to say science is failing despite the advancements it's made just because it hasn't reached an ultimate goal.

[popeyespappy]

Care to comment on de Grasse Tyson's recent tweet that the rise of flat-Earthers is some of the best evidence for the failure of our education system?

I think his comments are more likely to lead to the rise of flat-earthers than our education system.  The idea that our education system is failing is the part these flat-earthers see.  They don't care about the rest of it--so in a way it validates their opinions without even meaning to  I mean for starters..  you learn about Christopher Columbus and Magellan in school--as early as elementary school actually.  In 1492, Columbus Sailed the Ocean Blue.  The Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria.  These are typically things schoolchildren learn.

Our school system isn't quite up to snuff--but it's getting better.  And attitudes that it's 'failing' prevail, allowing people to ignore facts because they are presented by 'educated' people.  It allows them to say that schools are nothing more than indoctrination centers.  (And that's exactly what they say).

It'd be like saying "The fact that we haven't cured cancer is the best evidence for the failure of science."  It's not fair to say science is failing despite the advancements it's made just because it hasn't reached an ultimate goal.

I tend to agree with Neil. A few years back a large multiyear study (I'll see if I can find it later today) was published. It concluded one of the problems with the US education system was we didn't spend any time teaching our children what is wrong with crap like flat Earth. What they basically said was that if we didn't want our kids to grow up believing irreducible complexity was is a valid topic for science class we should spend some time teaching them why it isn't. We don't. At least not in the public school system.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Do you like the cool students or the nerd students?

[popeyespappy]

I'll see if I can find it later today.

I read the article in question several years ago, and I'm having a hard time running it down. But the research in question was part of AAAS Project 2061. Their basic conclusion was students believe things that are wrong. Things like flat Earth, young Earth creationism and intelligent design. When a student believes the Earth is 6000 years old and evolution is crock of shit because that's what they are being told at home it is difficult to convince them they are wrong without addressing the flaws in the arguments for these things. We don't do that in the US public education system. We try to teach them why we think the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and what the evidence is for evolution, but it doesn't convince them because we don't teach them what is wrong with the crap they are learning elsewhere.

[Cecelia]

I tend to agree with Neil. A few years back a large multiyear study (I'll see if I can find it later today) was published. It concluded one of the problems with the US education system was we didn't spend any time teaching our children what is wrong with crap like flat Earth. What they basically said was that if we didn't want our kids to grow up believing irreducible complexity was is a valid topic for science class we should spend some time teaching them why it isn't. We don't. At least not in the public school system.

What you and Neil don't seem to understand is that facts do not dissuade the 'True Believer'.  You can lead a religious nut to facts, but you can't make them think.  Facts do not matter to some people.  This has nothing to do with our education system.  In fact sentiments like "our education system is failing' lead to the idea that facts don't matter.  It emboldens people to go against what they're taught in school, because they'd rather believe what they're taught in Church.   Because they love nothing more than for someone to agree with them that school is nothing more than indoctrination.  And that the facts they're taught in school are 'wrong'.  

Our education system is far from failing.  In fact it's been steadily improving.

The idea that flat earthers 'prove' that our education system is failing is pure ridiculous.  Especially seeing as many flat earthers are homeschooled, and the fact that there aren't that many in the first place.  

But let's look into this further.  Neil DeGrasse Tyson can't convince flat earthers that the earth isn't flat.  Why is this not HIS failing?  Surely as smart as he is, he'd be able to convince them.  To teach them, and make them see the error of their ways?  No?  How many flat earthers has he converted?  Surely as smart and educated as he is, he can convince them.  I mean education doesn't stop just because you're out of school. 

Do you like the cool students or the nerd students?

I like all--well most of my students.  The only ones I don't like are the mean ones (of which there are a few) and the brown nosers.