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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:23 pm
Compare these two dilemmas:
Does god love humanity because it is good? or
Is humanity good because god loves it?
AND
Does god create humanity because it is good? or
Is humanity good because god creates it?
OR BETTER
Does god create humanity to be good because it is good to be good? or
Is it good to be good because god creates humanity to be good?
Which one is more like the original euthyphro problem?
Which ones sound weird?
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:32 pm
(October 16, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Things are the way they are because god commands/creates that they be so.
Is that a premise?
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2017 at 5:35 pm by Ignorant.)
(October 16, 2017 at 5:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If there's an inherent goodness to something than this must be, by definition, apart from god. [1] Something that's good in it;s own right is not good because of anything to do with a god. [2] Not by being created by a god, and not because of some whispy telos. You'd have to side with the first horn. [3] 1) That isn't the definition of inherent.
2) See above.
3) If you are an intellectual heir of voluntarist/nominalist thought... then sure. But if there is a metaphysic/philosophical school of thought that has a coherent understanding by which participated being includes inherent properties by participation (surprise: there is at least one such school), then, poof, the dilemma disappears.
(October 16, 2017 at 5:32 pm)Hammy Wrote: (October 16, 2017 at 5:09 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Things are the way they are because god commands/creates that they be so.
Is that a premise?
In the sort of theism I subscribe to, sure?
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:36 pm
(October 13, 2017 at 9:05 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I've always felt this has to be one of those dilemmas that ruins theists' sleep:
-If the first clause is true, then that means morality exists independent of God, and God isn't needed for Man to be a moral actor.
-If the second clause is true, then one must accept rape, enslavement, murder, torture, infanticide, and genital mutilation as morally good.
Boru
If the first clause is true, then that means morality exists independent of God, and God isn't needed for Man to be a moral actor.
God creates morals just by giving humans the survival instinct .
If the second clause is true, then one must accept rape, enslavement, murder, torture, infanticide, and genital mutilation as morally good.
Well God says what is good and automaticaly evil is created as the oposite . But God didn't tell you to be evil.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:36 pm
Going to bed... I'll be back tomorrow.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:40 pm
(October 16, 2017 at 5:34 pm)Ignorant Wrote: In the sort of theism I subscribe to, sure?
That's the problem with theism. The crap in their doctrines are premises rather than conclusions that were reasoned to.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:47 pm
(This post was last modified: October 16, 2017 at 5:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Inherent
Quote:existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.
"any form of mountaineering has its inherent dangers"
synonyms:
intrinsic, innate, immanent, built-in, indwelling, inborn, ingrained, deep-rooted; Mor
https://www.google.com/search?q=inherent...e&ie=UTF-8
Notice how the term consistently refers to the thing itself? This is all I mean when I say that whatever goodness is inherent to a thing is apart from god. It's intrinsic, innate, in-built, indwelling, inborn, etc. It wouldn't matter if billy, bob, steve, god, or no-one in particular made it the way it is, the way that it is is what makes it good...and this is whats being asked by the first horn.
Quote:3) If you are an intellectual heir of voluntarist/nominalist thought... then sure. But if there is a metaphysic/philosophical school of thought that has a coherent understanding by which participated being includes inherent properties by participation (surprise: there is at least one such school), then, poof, the dilemma disappears.
Feel free to resolve the dilemma at your leisure, then? You simply won't be able to do so with propositions that are functional equivalents of the two invoked by the dilemma - and that;s what you've offered thusfar.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:52 pm
(October 16, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Khemikal Wrote: -I think that the nominalist approach you're grasping for, btw,...
...thereby revealing that you haven't a clue about what nominlism is and by extension ignorance of what realism and conceptualism are.
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 5:56 pm
Good for you, you can say stuff and things. Done throwing your next fit, or?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Euthyphro dilemma
October 16, 2017 at 10:05 pm
(October 16, 2017 at 5:56 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Good for you, you can say stuff and things. Done throwing your next fit, or?
Nah...I'm just starting to realize something about you. I've always assumed that you actually knew a little something about philosophy and were making arguments of convenience. Now I realize that you truly don't understand basic concepts and that is why you argue for contradictory positions. Shame on me for not noticing this earlier.
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