Is the US ripe for a coup?

[vorlon13]

IIRC, 44s were similar in number to 43s, I might have even posted a happy missive here at the time proclaiming racial parity in this metric.

If 45 is running at a multiple of 44s, then it looks like the message is consternating and disgruntling with vigor.

[Anomalocaris]

For any coup to be successful, those Washington bureaucrat generals would have to sway the loyalties of the majority of all those squad and platoon leaders to have even the slightest chance of success.

In August of 1945, after the two atomic bombs, after the soviet union attacked and after the Emperor had decided to surrender, staff officers of the Imperial Guard division, stationed in Tokyo at the Imperial Palace, tried to stage a coup to prevent the broadcast of the surrender recording.  Those who knew what was going on led their troops into the palace itself and the troops followed the orders of their commanders.  The rallying cry was roughly "we have to rescue the emperor from the evil men who have advised him to surrender."

The coup was crushed when troops who were not involved were summoned.

Soldiers obey orders.

It is important to point out certain relevant cultural background.   The imperial Japanese army, despite its popular image in the west as a fanatically obedient force, actually held insubordination and mutiny to be a hallowed tradition.  

There is even a special word for it in the army field manual - gekokujo.  It means the rule of the subordinate over his superior.    The Japanese army, and culture, held that it is honorable for a subordinate to disobey orders, or to act in such a way as to force the hand of his superiors, if his intention was to ensure the goal which one’s superiors ought to be pursuing is better achieved.

From the 1920 onwards, gekokujo by field grade officers of the Japanese army shaped Japanese foreign policy, was behind multiple coups in Tokyo, started wars with China, was behind the humiliating Japanese defeat in the hands of the soviet army and the soon to be famous Georgy Zhukov in huge but little known in the west border conflict at Nomenhan in Mongolia in 1939, directly influenced the choice to attack the US in Pearl Harbor rather than the USSR again in Siberia, the conduct of the Japanese army in Malaysia.

Bushido says while a subordinate should carry out acts of gekokujo, he should also demonstrate the honorable ness of his intention by committing suicide afterwards.   But in reality during WWII, in the Japanese army, insubordinagd or mutinous officers who acted this way rarely committed suicide or were punished.  Often they were given a slap on the wrist, temporally reassigned for appearance sake, and then promoted.   Even officers who assassinated the cabinet ministers, and who for sake of appearances were condeamned to death by courts martial, remain honored in the roll call of the units in which they served.

[Minimalist]

While all that is true in this case the soldiers did obey even with the insane rationale that they were "rescuing" the emperor from his own advisors.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

In August of 1945, after the two atomic bombs, after the soviet union attacked and after the Emperor had decided to surrender, staff officers of the Imperial Guard division, stationed in Tokyo at the Imperial Palace, tried to stage a coup to prevent the broadcast of the surrender recording.  Those who knew what was going on led their troops into the palace itself and the troops followed the orders of their commanders.  The rallying cry was roughly "we have to rescue the emperor from the evil men who have advised him to surrender."

The coup was crushed when troops who were not involved were summoned.

Soldiers obey orders.

It is important to point out certain relevant cultural background.   The imperial Japanese army, despite its popular image in the west as a fanatically obedient force, actually held insubordination and mutiny to be a hallowed tradition.  

There is even a special word for it in the army field manual - gekokujo.  It means the rule of the subordinate over his superior.    The Japanese army, and culture, held that it is honorable for a subordinate to disobey orders, or to act in such a way as to force the hand of his superiors, if his intention was to ensure the goal which one’s superiors ought to be pursuing is better achieved.

From the 1920 onwards, gekokujo by field grade officers of the Japanese army shaped Japanese foreign policy, was behind multiple coups in Tokyo, started wars with China, was behind the humiliating Japanese defeat in the hands of the soviet army and the soon to be famous Georgy Zhukov in huge but little known in the west border conflict at Nomenhan in Mongolia in 1939, directly influenced the choice to attack the US in Pearl Harbor rather than the USSR again in Siberia, the conduct of the Japanese army in Malaysia.

Bushido says while a subordinate should carry out acts of gekokujo, he should also demonstrate the honorable ness of his intention by committing suicide afterwards.   But in reality during WWII, in the Japanese army, insubordinagd or mutinous officers who acted this way rarely committed suicide or were punished.  Often they were given a slap on the wrist, temporally reassigned for appearance sake, and then promoted.   Even officers who assassinated the cabinet ministers, and who for sake of appearances were condeamned to death by courts martial, remain honored in the roll call of the units in which they served.

And gekokujo was honorable if it advanced the cause of Japan, adhering to Yamato.

---

While all that is true in this case the soldiers did obey even with the insane rationale that they were "rescuing" the emperor from his own advisors.

It wasn't insane for the enlisted men, they got their information from the officers. The was idea that the surrender faction had given the Emperor false information and had to be extracted from that faction.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

In August of 1945, after the two atomic bombs, after the soviet union attacked and after the Emperor had decided to surrender, staff officers of the Imperial Guard division, stationed in Tokyo at the Imperial Palace, tried to stage a coup to prevent the broadcast of the surrender recording.  Those who knew what was going on led their troops into the palace itself and the troops followed the orders of their commanders.  The rallying cry was roughly "we have to rescue the emperor from the evil men who have advised him to surrender."

The coup was crushed when troops who were not involved were summoned.

Soldiers obey orders.

It is important to point out certain relevant cultural background.   The imperial Japanese army, despite its popular image in the west as a fanatically obedient force, actually held insubordination and mutiny to be a hallowed tradition.  

There is even a special word for it in the army field manual - gekokujo.  It means the rule of the subordinate over his superior.    The Japanese army, and culture, held that it is honorable for a subordinate to disobey orders, or to act in such a way as to force the hand of his superiors, if his intention was to ensure the goal which one’s superiors ought to be pursuing is better achieved.

From the 1920 onwards, gekokujo by field grade officers of the Japanese army shaped Japanese foreign policy, was behind multiple coups in Tokyo, started wars with China, was behind the humiliating Japanese defeat in the hands of the soviet army and the soon to be famous Georgy Zhukov in huge but little known in the west border conflict at Nomenhan in Mongolia in 1939, directly influenced the choice to attack the US in Pearl Harbor rather than the USSR again in Siberia, the conduct of the Japanese army in Malaysia.

Bushido says while a subordinate should carry out acts of gekokujo, he should also demonstrate the honorable ness of his intention by committing suicide afterwards.   But in reality during WWII, in the Japanese army, insubordinagd or mutinous officers who acted this way rarely committed suicide or were punished.  Often they were given a slap on the wrist, temporally reassigned for appearance sake, and then promoted.   Even officers who assassinated the cabinet ministers, and who for sake of appearances were condeamned to death by courts martial, remain honored in the roll call of the units in which they served.

Fascinating information.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Anyone interested in this series of events should find a copy of "Japan's Longest Day".

[Drich]

Here's how I imagine it.  Trump gives an order to the Generals of the Armed Forces who refuse to obey it; he fires one or more of them but they refuse to resign.  Soon after, some federal court issues an arrest warrant for the disobedient officer, but when the FBI tries to serve the warrant, they are fired upon by the soldiers loyal to that General.  After that, all three generals of the Armed Forces declare their loyalty to each other and most of the troops under their commands follow them.  They then setup a US military command that is independent of civilian control, and any police agency that dares to cross them is fired upon using the massive firepower of the United States military.  Soon after the civilian authorities back down, as they are massively outgunned.  The three generals then declare limited martial law, exempting them and their men (and women) from the control of the US government.  They fire upon anyone foolish enough to cross them.

where do you live North Korea?

You are missing a key element in your argument.. the American people. More over those who voted for trump fortify the military, who all have sworn to defend the constitution and it's duely elected leaders. not only that all trump need do is sign an executive order to bring back the militia. which only includes citizens but all military not supporting an unconstitutional cue.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Here's how I imagine it.  Trump gives an order to the Generals of the Armed Forces who refuse to obey it; he fires one or more of them but they refuse to resign.  Soon after, some federal court issues an arrest warrant for the disobedient officer, but when the FBI tries to serve the warrant, they are fired upon by the soldiers loyal to that General.  After that, all three generals of the Armed Forces declare their loyalty to each other and most of the troops under their commands follow them.  They then setup a US military command that is independent of civilian control, and any police agency that dares to cross them is fired upon using the massive firepower of the United States military.  Soon after the civilian authorities back down, as they are massively outgunned.  The three generals then declare limited martial law, exempting them and their men (and women) from the control of the US government.  They fire upon anyone foolish enough to cross them.

where do you live North Korea?

You are missing a key element in your argument.. the American people. More over those who voted for trump fortify the military, who all have sworn to defend the constitution and it's duely elected leaders. not only that all trump need do is sign an executive order to bring back the militia. which only includes citizens but all military not supporting an unconstitutional cue.

The last thing the military would want is a bunch of fat redneck drunks with guns to babysit.

[Drich]

Anyone interested in this series of events should find a copy of "Japan's Longest Day".

would not work here as we are not an imperial country. you can't chop the head off of one snake and collapse the beast. Japan's post wwii cue was about destroying one person, If trump dies then so must pence and then mad dog maddius and so on and so fourth marching it's way through congress, till we can all agree to simply elect another offical. No one in this country will ever except military rule.

[Jehanne]

Here's how I imagine it.  Trump gives an order to the Generals of the Armed Forces who refuse to obey it; he fires one or more of them but they refuse to resign.  Soon after, some federal court issues an arrest warrant for the disobedient officer, but when the FBI tries to serve the warrant, they are fired upon by the soldiers loyal to that General.  After that, all three generals of the Armed Forces declare their loyalty to each other and most of the troops under their commands follow them.  They then setup a US military command that is independent of civilian control, and any police agency that dares to cross them is fired upon using the massive firepower of the United States military.  Soon after the civilian authorities back down, as they are massively outgunned.  The three generals then declare limited martial law, exempting them and their men (and women) from the control of the US government.  They fire upon anyone foolish enough to cross them.

where do you live North Korea?

You are missing a key element in your argument.. the American people. More over those who voted for trump fortify the military, who all have sworn to defend the constitution and it's duely elected leaders. not only that all trump need do is sign an executive order to bring back the militia. which only includes citizens but all military not supporting an unconstitutional cue.

No, I live in Iowa.  As for the American People, no, I don't think that any "Promise Keeper" militias would try to fight the US military; they would be squashed like insects.