Does it take courage or cowardice to commit suicide?

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

It's something I've talked with our dear violet before. She's of the opinion that cowards do it but I disagreed with her because for me I think it takes a hell lot of courage to do it. Though some people think it's a act of cowardice and they all have different reasoning. 
What's your take? And why?

[FatAndFaithless]

Like most of your polls, I think this is just not a question that can be answered 'yes' or 'no' without any context at all for the situations involved. It depends.

[Shell B]

Violet? You mean the missing Violet that I miss so much? Where is that strange lady? I MISS HER!

Anyway, F&F is totally correct. In some cases, it takes courage. In others, it's cowardice. In all cases, it's completely up to the person doing it what they want to do with their own bodies. I don't care.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Violet? You mean the missing Violet that I miss so much? Where is that strange lady? I MISS HER!

Anyway, F&F is totally correct. In some cases, it takes courage. In others, it's cowardice. In all cases, it's completely up to the person doing it what they want to do with their own bodies. I don't care.

Last I heard she's somewhere with weird reception so her internet is a bit slow I haven't checked my Skype in a while she's probably left a message I miss her so much too hopefully I'll get a chance to talk with her again

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Like most of your polls, I think this is just not a question that can be answered 'yes' or 'no' without any context at all for the situations involved. It depends.

True. Context matters a lot with this. Though I'd argue in every situation from the pov of the person doing it, it must've taken a lot of courage for them to do it. From outside perspective though I think it'd probably be perceived as cowardice more often than courage.

[Rev. Rye]

Courage requires taking some action, even if said action is simply offing yourself. In fact, the ancient Stoic doctrine that people can withstand anything hinges on the possibility that suicide counts as withstanding.

Epictetus once said: “Remember that the door is open. Don’t be more cowardly than children, but just as they say, when the game is no longer fun for them, ‘I won’t play any more,’ you too, when things seem that way to you, say, ‘I won’t play any more,’ and leave, but if you remain, don’t complain.” (Discourses I.24.20)

“Has someone made smoke in the house? If it is moderate, I’ll stay. If too much, I exit. For you must always remember and hold fast to this, that the door is open.” (Discourses I.25.18)

I remember reading about Cleanthes, a Stoic philosopher who killed himself (by starvation) to rid himself of an ulcer. Given that he was apparently 99 years old, I suppose he thought he lived a full life. I also remember another who did the same because of a toothache, but maybe my memory is just fudging up the details on Cleanthes’ story.

[Catholic_Lady]

Neither.

Usually its mental illness or being in a terminal condition of sorts anyway and not wanting to suffer more before you go.

[Losty]

Neither.

Usually its mental illness or being in a terminal condition of sorts anyway and not wanting to suffer more before you go.

I would agree with this, though I think if you’re suffering a terminal illness it probably takes courage to end your life.
It’s so much more complicated than just saying courage or cowardice. The notion seems ridiculous

[vorlon13]

I had to ponder suicide in regards to clients and friends during my hospice training.

I decided early on I'd freely discuss the subject with anyone who wanted to talk about it. I'd be neutral and try to just listen. I did anticipate hearing of techniques that might be ineffective or inappropriate and I deemed I'd advise if something sounded like it was not going to have the desired result.

I also decided that while I wouldn't actively 'help', if someone wanted me there at the time to hold a hand or notify the appropriate parties upon completion, I would comply.

As for characterizing as 'cowardice' or 'courage', I would not dare the effrontery. I have no idea, and do not care. HIV/AIDS was a fucking nightmare 1980s to mid 1990s and I anticipated a wide range of responses. I'm not going to 'judge', I think everyone's specific 'truth' about this would be highly individualized and personal. Exceeds my pay grade as a volunteer to form an opinion.

Brian didn't. Seemed entirely appropriate for him to not have done so.

Ken did. Yeah, it was a jolt when I found out, but he did it right after his first (grueling) hospital stay and had no stomach for any more of it. Seems appropriate to me.

E did.

R didn't.

A didn't.

Neither G did.

C did.

A managed to die of cancer (non-HIV related) before his HIV got him. He wasn't going to FUBAR what he viewed as his good luck in contracting cancer by suiciding over being HIV+

Never decided if R committed suicide or not. He put serious constraints on what HIV treatments he'd accept and which ones he would not. Didn't work, he died. But he was in control right up to the end.

Before 12 Steppers I was FIRMLY convinced suicide was a good choice for me if I was + and developed symptoms. After I started 12 Steppers decided if I was HIV+ I would probably stick it out quite a ways if not all the way. But then tested - so didn't ever find out what I would have 'really' done.

As for methods, C shot himself, E used CO, I think Ken OD'd on pills. C seemed to me to be a pretty gentle sort of person, I may not have been surprised he killed himself, but I was surprised he used a gun. Guns in my tribe are a VERY rare thing indeed. I can't think of too many friends of mine with firearms (read that as none or one). I had a couple hunting rifles removed from the house several years ago. There is an antique (and disassembled) pistol in the house. No ammo, BTW. One of my grandfathers carried it when he worked for the railroad. This was in the 1930s and he had concerns about encountering a train robber and he wanted to make an account of himself if the need arose. I wound up with it from my interest in trains.

Not sure how I'd view an HIV related suicide these days. It would probably depend on who, and maybe whether or not they'd been positive for a very long time and having worsening problems. But I really don't know. I'd like to think it would be profoundly unlikely to happen at this point . . .

[FFaith]

It's both I think and people are talking about different things when they say cowardice or courageous. The cowardly part is being too much of a coward to carry on and rise above the challenges you face. The courageous part is the actual act of taking your life. That requires courage in itself.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Neither.

Usually its mental illness or being in a terminal condition of sorts anyway and not wanting to suffer more before you go.

Depression is often linked with a kind of emotional numbness. Depression robs people of joy. Food tastes bland. Entertainment is boring. Music is just noise. Suicide is just another form of self-harm that sometimes comes from a misguided attempt to feel something, anything. It does not take courage to dispose of what one thinks has no value.

Been there. Done that. Nuf' said.