Karl Marx followers?

[Marx]

Are you implying that Karl Marx wanted his theory to be applied to slay humans? I do believe Friedrich Engels wanted a more 'peaceful revolution' rather than a violent one. Ah, I have never heard of that term, thanks. I really don't think killing Romanovs would have solved anything, it led to Stalin leading the country, which made it worse.

I agree! Lenin went too far with it, killing the Tsarist was simply not moral;

What has that got to do with anything?

Realpolitik is based on pragmatism,and is amoral. In the same situation, I would have killed as many Romanovs as I could get my hands on,but much sooner.That action was absolutely politically necessary.
Besides,there was never a Marxist state in Russia or in what became the USSR. Communism by definition is democratic and cannot be a totalitarian state.



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Realpolitik (see also Political realism; from German: real “realistic”, “practical” or “actual”; and Politik “politics”) refers to politics or diplomacy based primarily on power and on practical and material factors and considerations, rather than ideological notions or moralistic or ethical premises. In this respect, it shares aspects of its philosophical approach with those of realism and pragmatism. The term realpolitik is sometimes used pejoratively to imply politics that are coercive, amoral, or Machiavellian. Realpolitik is a theory of politics that focuses on considerations of power, not ideals, morals, or principles. The term was coined by Ludwig von Rochau, a German writer and politician in the 19th century, following Klemens von Metternich's lead in finding ways to balance the power of European empires. Balancing power to keep the European pentarchy was the means for keeping the peace, and careful Realpolitik practitioners tried to avoid arms races.

Rodrigo Borja defines it as the principle on which nations act, in their foreign policies, driven by their own interests and not by altruism, friendship, idealism or solidarity considerations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Are you implying that Karl Marx wanted his theory to be applied to slay humans?

What Marx or Engels may have intended is irrelevant*. Not only is the idea of bloodless Russian (or American,or French or Chinese) a fantasy, there has never been a Marxist state anywhere.

My point is that politics is amoral,based on pragmatism. It was absolutely essential to get rid of the Romanovs.,to weaken the royalist counter revolution.Morality does not enter the argument for any political ideology in any practical sense.

As far as I've been able to tell,there is no pure ideology of any kind which works as the brochure describes. Utopian models are especially flawed, regardless of which end of the political spectrum. As a practical proposition. Marxism has been demonstrated to be unworkable to the point of being naive.


*I think Marx would have been horrified; he was actually a moral philosopher,but not a pragamtist.

[Rev. Rye]

Does anyone here read or like the philosopher Karl Marx?

Well, I read part of his "EConomic and Political Manuscripts of 1844" for a philosophy class, and I, like Guy Debord, do consider myself "a Marxist of the Groucho variety."

[theVOID]

Does anyone here read or like the philosopher Karl Marx?

No thanks, I'm not delusional.

Pragmatism and Marx just do not mix

[The Omnissiunt One]

From what I've read, Marx seemed to believe that history was mainly driven by changes in the productive forces (farms, factories, mills, etc.) of a society, and that human ideas had little effect on societal change, but rather arose from changes in the productive forces. This seems implausible to me - surely it is a two way relationship- plus, he expected his own ideas to make a difference. Which is quite a contradiction.

[Marx]

Does anyone here read or like the philosopher Karl Marx?

No thanks, I'm not delusional.

Pragmatism and Marx just do not mix

Lol, your post made me laugh. I don't believe radical revolutions will work, but a slow progressed change could work, I do believe. What Lenin did with the Russian Revolution was merely nonsensical.

[downbeatplumb]

Marxs philosophy was a response to the extreme stratification and inequality of the society he lived in. In its purest form it is probably unworkable but some elements are usable and social/economic equality is a laudable aim.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Lol, your post made me laugh. I don't believe radical revolutions will work, but a slow progressed change could work

Oh, you mean like Fabian Socialism?




Most significant change IS revolutionary; in society, individually ,and even in science,which has always lent towards the revolutionary. Acceptance of change can be another matter entirely.We call people who resist change conservatives ,the status quo, or the more pejorative "Luddite".

Those who want immediate,drastic change in society are called ; socialist/communist, anarchists, the marginalised and the disenfranchised. THAT is the group is used to fight revolutions in the literal sense of shedding blood, although it does not usually foment them.

[GANIMEDE]

Karl Marx's ideas were based on the assumption that all humans were capabable of living harmoniously together in a society which shared the goods and benefits fairly and equaly. Real Communism is a system without any central government at all, but a collection of small working communities living together and sharing with eachother. This form of pure Communism never came about anywhere, much less in the Soviet Union.

Unfortunately his therory excludes the sad fact that most humans are sheeplike and really do cry out for an idealized "Sheppard". Even within relatively "free societies", like the USA, there is a constant Celebrity Cult whereby simple citizens practice worship and emmulation of "rich and famous" idols, not to mention the proliferation of "faith-cults" with carismatic leaders. Such passive psychological slavishness seems to be a natural part of the Human Psyche. This is the main reason why True Communism can never come about.