What do you think of Wicca?

[*Deidre*]

But, what is compelling about spells/witchcraft, isn't the craft itself, but what you come away with. The incantations that I've been doing, I'm growing and learning about myself. Learning about my desires, and are they grounded in the right things? Do I hold grudges, do I harbor resentment? Casting spells outward seem to be exciting, but it's what's happening inward that is real to me. I found a Wicca forum that is primarily discussing spells, etc...but they caution that Wicca isn't really ''about spells.'' And that spell work actually should reveal a lot about who we are, and our own goals/desires.

[The Grand Nudger]

We;re all incredibly artful in self deception.  Spells tell you the story that you want to hear about yourself, more likely. As I mentioned before..if you;re doing a spell you;re already engaging in a fundamental self deception..why would you trust the results of any analysis thereof?

Try travel, try learning about others, ask a friend, try books on the primary subject of inquiry.

---

To put it into context..if you find yourself casting a spell wishing for some asshole to die..did you really need to cast the spell to know that you harbored a grudge..how trite is that sort of self enlightenment..and if thats the extent of learning who you are by practicing witchcraft that these people are talking about (and it is)...what a useless deepity.

[*Deidre*]

I wouldn't find myself casting a spell like that. What? Please stop insulting me. I've been respectful to you, and you claim you're trying to be, but yet you go back to insulting me. Veiled insults...subtle, but there. Does putting me down, putting my intellect down...make you feel better? Idk.

I'm not an idiot and if you're interested in a mutually respectful dialogue, yay. If not...please. Just stop.

[The Grand Nudger]

If you find yourself casting some spell for things to go wonderful for some other person or in some particular aspect in your life all of the same still applies.  I fail to see why you would find a personal insult in our basic and common tendency to tell personal narratives that aren;t strictly true..or in the deepities offered by others regarding those narratives.

[*Deidre*]

You don't fail to see it.

[The Grand Nudger]

If you say so, but don;t you think it;s a little strange for me to have to defer to the platitudes of self help doublespeak..which is what is sold in books on witchcraft and why theyre so commonly in the same aisle that Mystic here thought they all -were- books on wicca, as though to do otherwise is to somehow disrespect you?

Here;s an insult, and I rarely bother with subtlety. Ratchet down the offense factory princess. You;re at af..it;s not exactly a safespace for talking about magic.

[*Deidre*]

I’m not defending Wicca, I don’t know enough to defend it. It’s just a conversation, brah. But you seem to think that you’re enlightening me. I’m not dumb and I realize things for what they are. But you seem to look at life as a materialist. I say seem because it seems that way. If you’re a materialist, any ideas outside of that view, you will try to refute. I’m not a materialist even when I was an atheist.

[The Grand Nudger]

We all think we do, but we also have gaping blindspots..and those blindspots are exploited by purveyors of paperbacks and supernatural paraphernalia.  Theres simply nothing about a magic spell that would suggest that it;s a good tool for self discovery other than what you find in those paperbacks, and a great body of information to the contrary...and it doesn;t really matter whether a person is a materialist or not on that count. Even presuming theres some other x...magic spells still are exactly what they are.

What about the non cynical reasons that people might offer such a testimonial, though..right?  Well..consider the arc of most people who dabble in wicca or witchcraft.  They come for the spells, stay for the less horrid philosophy, and then gradually peter out..either returning to their original faith traditions and offering some of the most amusingly lurid testimonials of witchcraft anyone might ever read...or reaching a religious vacuum (or worse, atheism).  Heres something where I think that we could both defer to your very personal knowledge of having left a faith.  Recall the twilight between your being a catholic and recognizing that you no longer were.  Probably wasn;t an on then off thing.  There was almost certainly a gradual pull back from both the institution and the practices..some bits lasting longer than others.  In the same vein, there are probably plenty of things you told yourself and others as to why you stuck with this or that bit that you;ve now left....and within that set, you can probably identify some things that weren;t really doing what you thought they were or said they were or believed they were or were told they would, at the time.   

Witchcraft is in that set of things, for very nearly everyone whos ever been involved in wicca.  First it;s magic spells.  Then it's a ritual focus, then it;s a sort of self discovery tool.  A gradual softening and evolution of a conceptual stance.  The thing is..it never delivers any of those goods, and why would it?  It;s not therapy.  Its not a treatise on the human psyche backed by thousands of human lifetimes of clinical trials and critical analysis.  It;s folklore.  In the most generous assessment, and within the context of self discovery..it;s a conceptual prop.  Something that stands between us and the discovery we seek, and intentionally so, but could achieve by more direct means.  It often serves the purpose of reenforcing a feedback loop..and while that may have a use in operant conditioning (the likely purpose of the development of all human ritual since behavioral modernity)....it;s the very opposite of what it is you indicated you sought in it;s practice.  

Eyes wide open, right?

[*Deidre*]

Now that, resonates with me. I understand where you're coming from, now. And I can't say I disagree...that in a broad sense, spell casting and the like are mere visualizations that aren't necessary to what we might know all along. But, I like visualizations, rituals and the like.

[The Grand Nudger]

So do I.  It;s a bit of an obsession.  You should check out rosicrucianism.  Those guys were off the chain.  

Golden Dawn, Israel Regardie.

Over the three quarters of a century since it first saw print, Israel Regardie'sThe Golden Dawn has become the most influential modern handbook of magical theory and practice

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Golden_Dawn.html?id=b5VbCwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button#v=onepage&q&f=false