I think we are going off-topic and not in slight so manner.
So I made a thread, that will continue the discussion on Mohammad in the Torah and Gospels.
The Bible starts with the concept of the "Image of God" with the Adam and then after the murder out of envy story of two sons of Adam, it talks about the "Seth" which means set by God. So far it's clear, God tested his creation through his image. And he is the one who sets such people and it's not upon any of his creation to choose. The serpent and it's subtle nature is not explicit in the Torah as it is in the Gospels and Quran, but it's clear, it's a manifest enemy to humanity.
The warning tone then goes on to iterate that Enoch too was created in the Image of God like Adam, and that he was taken up by God and didn't die. This if you understand scripture, is not meant to be cool story or made to cool stories, but it shows God has a plan with his chosen ones for the future time, and hence took him up. This will be important for Elijah (Elyas) and Jesus (Isa), and eventually the Mahdi (12th successor of the Prophet).
This is already favoring the Islamic version very much, in that, it's emphasizing God's way of choosing his images and setting them, by the name Seth it becomes that important, the first successor is emphasized to be chosen by God and not people.
Keep this is mind. It get's into dialogue of Abraham and Lot, but the most important thing in that, is the chosen ones from Abraham's offspring, the true Kings like Abraham was a true King, were special, and were loved and close to Abraham and the other chosen ones, others were not though they were related by blood.
There is much jealousy towards this chosen family. What is the purpose of all this? Surely it has a purpose.
The purpose obviously is all leading to the talk of the family of Aaron. Lot was obviously close to Abraham, and emphasizes that Abraham's chosen sons are equals of Abraham but meant to be inheritors of his mission.
When it get's to Aaron and his family, all previous talk, from Seth to the family of Abraham, was obviously meant to emphasize the importance of this dialogue.
But then the old testament begins to turn 180, and this is the first thing that Quran tackles. It's not only the Jesus story that it has a different version, but it disagrees with the viewpoint that the family of Aaron were not the true Kings of the people of Moses.
They were, and it even further argues it's one and the same with the family of Moses, with the singular "has left" in Arabic, makes that clear.
Aaron is repeated 20 times in Quran, 12 times a long side Moses, and Joshua doesn't appear even once.
So the Quran has a different version from the get go.
And it paraphrases Moses' words regarding Aaron in many ways, and there is a whole theme to this, whether verses about it with Mohammad or Moses and Aaron, it's obviously making the case that there was a neglected importance in the position of Aaron.
I know 100% if it was from a human, it would just have spelt it out for us, but it didn't. Going back to the Torah, before it turned 180 against the sons of Aaron, who God took a covenant regarding, Moses prayed for the "the one God will send" to untie his tongue.
Now despite all the silliness of a literal tongue having problems and Aaron just speaking from his mouth like he is his tongue, the Quran is arguing, originally, it was meant metaphorically with all the paraphrasing.
And how can the one who God will send in future times be the one to untie the physical tongue. You see how silly the attempts to hide this are?
Talut which is Saul, which means that which is sought from God or asked for by God, was also not this villain that they made him out to be and it would contradict all the talk of image of God and Seth and family of Abraham and the chosen ones....
It contradicts the whole thesis of the Torah.
It's contradicts the heart of the religion, the heart the argument in the Torah.
And it's clear. And some parts of the Bible and even I would say most parts, stay true to the Torah and are God's words.
As for Jesus, where is the proof he died? Sure people thought he died, but when he came back, it's obvious to me, everyone thought they killed him or crucified him but God made an everlasting proof of Jesus, that they didn't kill him. They thought they did, but the one who healed the blind and resurrected the dead, it would not be surprising if he played dead only to come back, and that they thought they killed him because by natural means he would be dead.
And what can the comforter be when holy spirit was always with humans, and Jesus said "who has not come to this world", regarding the comforter?
And yes there is another comforter that was with the disciples of Jesus after and that was Elijah. That is because just as Jesus was the path and way, so must Elijah continue this position of light to the world, when Jesus leaves.
And the holy spirit does it make sense to be this sort of magic tool of God to create his word or the trinity none-sense, or does it make sense more that what the whole Torah iterated and emphasized on, it's the likes of Abraham and Solomon, and David and Samuel.
And how Quran comments on the holy spirt or the spirit from his command or his beautiful names, in that lies the truth, of what Jesus said.
And Samuel means "name of God" and how can the name of God be other then a living thing, when God is Yahweh, and that is he is the living by which all life comes from and the cause of death, the eternal life by which all things are originated from.
I'm sorry Deidre, but, Quran has the best interpretation of old testament and even brought the reason of the statues of Solomon, the 12 Grand Lions, in the best and most subtle manner, and connected all this with the recompense of Mohammad, which is but the love of the family of the reminder.
And there has been plenty of family of reminders, and Jesus at the end, was just a member of a family of reminder, a human who God favored.
The interpretation of the Christian Church is ridiculous and there is no reason to reject Mohammad in the gospels but out envy towards the fact God graces and favors who he wants of his creation with immense grace.
It's easy to accept people of the past as chosen ones, and make a whole philosophy dictated by a clergy class with no proof, but harder is to remain true to the current king of our time and take the side of the truthful images and names of God in this age, who are manifestations of his glory and beauty.
And Quran even comments on "name of God" with regards to generations transgressing because people named themselves with it, and comments on it subtly.
Of course, Quran comments all this in a non-argumentative way. It's the same with how it iterates proofs for the existence of God, it iterates in a none-argumentative way.
But if someone reflects, they will see clear commentary on the Bible, and it has the best interpretation of it.
The Quran states believers will see Mohammad in the Torah and Gospels that remains among them. It never said that right away, the whole world will just accept Mohammad in the Torah and Gospels.
Of course, I see him in the Torah and Gospels.
So I made a thread, that will continue the discussion on Mohammad in the Torah and Gospels.
(June 18, 2018 at 8:59 am)*Deidre* Wrote: I’ve wondered why Islam feels the need to address Jesus at all. It’s almost as though the NT presents a problem or dilemma for the Islam story to have an effect. So, Muhammad told half truths about Jesus and caused reasonable doubt among the masses who believed that he died and rose from the dead. Muhammad isn’t mentioned in the Bible, as a prophecy of a next prophet. Just being objective, it stands to reason that Muhammad couldn’t ignore the OT and NT beliefs so he spun them to suit his agenda. I find certain parts of Islam to be beautiful but concocting a new story about Jesus just doesn’t make sense and doesn’t seem true.
The Bible starts with the concept of the "Image of God" with the Adam and then after the murder out of envy story of two sons of Adam, it talks about the "Seth" which means set by God. So far it's clear, God tested his creation through his image. And he is the one who sets such people and it's not upon any of his creation to choose. The serpent and it's subtle nature is not explicit in the Torah as it is in the Gospels and Quran, but it's clear, it's a manifest enemy to humanity.
The warning tone then goes on to iterate that Enoch too was created in the Image of God like Adam, and that he was taken up by God and didn't die. This if you understand scripture, is not meant to be cool story or made to cool stories, but it shows God has a plan with his chosen ones for the future time, and hence took him up. This will be important for Elijah (Elyas) and Jesus (Isa), and eventually the Mahdi (12th successor of the Prophet).
This is already favoring the Islamic version very much, in that, it's emphasizing God's way of choosing his images and setting them, by the name Seth it becomes that important, the first successor is emphasized to be chosen by God and not people.
Keep this is mind. It get's into dialogue of Abraham and Lot, but the most important thing in that, is the chosen ones from Abraham's offspring, the true Kings like Abraham was a true King, were special, and were loved and close to Abraham and the other chosen ones, others were not though they were related by blood.
There is much jealousy towards this chosen family. What is the purpose of all this? Surely it has a purpose.
The purpose obviously is all leading to the talk of the family of Aaron. Lot was obviously close to Abraham, and emphasizes that Abraham's chosen sons are equals of Abraham but meant to be inheritors of his mission.
When it get's to Aaron and his family, all previous talk, from Seth to the family of Abraham, was obviously meant to emphasize the importance of this dialogue.
But then the old testament begins to turn 180, and this is the first thing that Quran tackles. It's not only the Jesus story that it has a different version, but it disagrees with the viewpoint that the family of Aaron were not the true Kings of the people of Moses.
They were, and it even further argues it's one and the same with the family of Moses, with the singular "has left" in Arabic, makes that clear.
Aaron is repeated 20 times in Quran, 12 times a long side Moses, and Joshua doesn't appear even once.
So the Quran has a different version from the get go.
And it paraphrases Moses' words regarding Aaron in many ways, and there is a whole theme to this, whether verses about it with Mohammad or Moses and Aaron, it's obviously making the case that there was a neglected importance in the position of Aaron.
I know 100% if it was from a human, it would just have spelt it out for us, but it didn't. Going back to the Torah, before it turned 180 against the sons of Aaron, who God took a covenant regarding, Moses prayed for the "the one God will send" to untie his tongue.
Now despite all the silliness of a literal tongue having problems and Aaron just speaking from his mouth like he is his tongue, the Quran is arguing, originally, it was meant metaphorically with all the paraphrasing.
And how can the one who God will send in future times be the one to untie the physical tongue. You see how silly the attempts to hide this are?
Talut which is Saul, which means that which is sought from God or asked for by God, was also not this villain that they made him out to be and it would contradict all the talk of image of God and Seth and family of Abraham and the chosen ones....
It contradicts the whole thesis of the Torah.
It's contradicts the heart of the religion, the heart the argument in the Torah.
And it's clear. And some parts of the Bible and even I would say most parts, stay true to the Torah and are God's words.
As for Jesus, where is the proof he died? Sure people thought he died, but when he came back, it's obvious to me, everyone thought they killed him or crucified him but God made an everlasting proof of Jesus, that they didn't kill him. They thought they did, but the one who healed the blind and resurrected the dead, it would not be surprising if he played dead only to come back, and that they thought they killed him because by natural means he would be dead.
And what can the comforter be when holy spirit was always with humans, and Jesus said "who has not come to this world", regarding the comforter?
And yes there is another comforter that was with the disciples of Jesus after and that was Elijah. That is because just as Jesus was the path and way, so must Elijah continue this position of light to the world, when Jesus leaves.
And the holy spirit does it make sense to be this sort of magic tool of God to create his word or the trinity none-sense, or does it make sense more that what the whole Torah iterated and emphasized on, it's the likes of Abraham and Solomon, and David and Samuel.
And how Quran comments on the holy spirt or the spirit from his command or his beautiful names, in that lies the truth, of what Jesus said.
And Samuel means "name of God" and how can the name of God be other then a living thing, when God is Yahweh, and that is he is the living by which all life comes from and the cause of death, the eternal life by which all things are originated from.
I'm sorry Deidre, but, Quran has the best interpretation of old testament and even brought the reason of the statues of Solomon, the 12 Grand Lions, in the best and most subtle manner, and connected all this with the recompense of Mohammad, which is but the love of the family of the reminder.
And there has been plenty of family of reminders, and Jesus at the end, was just a member of a family of reminder, a human who God favored.
The interpretation of the Christian Church is ridiculous and there is no reason to reject Mohammad in the gospels but out envy towards the fact God graces and favors who he wants of his creation with immense grace.
It's easy to accept people of the past as chosen ones, and make a whole philosophy dictated by a clergy class with no proof, but harder is to remain true to the current king of our time and take the side of the truthful images and names of God in this age, who are manifestations of his glory and beauty.
And Quran even comments on "name of God" with regards to generations transgressing because people named themselves with it, and comments on it subtly.
Of course, Quran comments all this in a non-argumentative way. It's the same with how it iterates proofs for the existence of God, it iterates in a none-argumentative way.
But if someone reflects, they will see clear commentary on the Bible, and it has the best interpretation of it.
(June 18, 2018 at 9:52 am)*Deidre* Wrote: What was Muhammad defending then? Who was he defending Islam against?
The Quran states believers will see Mohammad in the Torah and Gospels that remains among them. It never said that right away, the whole world will just accept Mohammad in the Torah and Gospels.
Of course, I see him in the Torah and Gospels.
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