America - Sliding Down The Shitter

[Amarok]

What's the income level or other defining traits of these people who are poor but think they're working class?

As I was reading this thread, I was thinking that the main problem might be differing thoughts as to what is or isn't middle class.

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https://money.cnn.com/infographic/econom...ss-anyway/

Classifying the middle class as income between $30ish thousand* to over six figures is pretty laughable IMO. You can separate it into subgroups (lower, middle, upper) but at the end of the day, considering what "middle class" means to most people, it's an incredibly misleading statistic. It tricks American workers who should be demanding more into thinking that income inequality somehow benefits them. Crazy stuff.

Those in the middle middle and lower middle are at serious risk of falling into a lower class because of one, large unforeseen expense. Somebody making close to or more than $100k has more than enough to establish a sizable rainy day fund and create a diversified investment portfolio that will provide them a sizable passive income, so that when that unforeseen expense comes, they will be ready. They will will not have to give up any aspect of their life that they were enjoying prior (for the most part). To me, that is the middle class. Everybody else is one mistake away from being poor. That is the working class. 

But, honestly, the working class and middle class are facing similar problems in terms of income inequality. Regardless of whether or not the economy is booming, only 20% of the population sees 90% of the benefits. Wages have also remain stagnated for quite some time, despite everything else increasing in cost. This is less of a Democrat/Republican issue and more of a problem with American state capitalism as a whole. That's why young people are turning socialist. They're disillusioned with our system and haven't lived through the 1980s (when everybody was conditioned to be content with income inequality.)

Both Democrats and Republicans have made the problem worse, like when Bill Clinton deregulated the financial sector. But nobody has had a worse impact than Reagan IMO. Check out income distribution before and after Reaganomics. 



[Chart taken from this Forbes article]

*I confused numbers from different sources, $46k is what the CNNMoney starts it at.

Republicans love to attack the concept of income inequality as it's a good criticism of Free Market ,Trickle Down , Privatize everything  religion .

[Fireball]

Yes, the corporate rip-off. In the '80s, the company I used to work for (which was since purchased by another) used to have an engineer and a supervisor for each communications payload. That was where the payload was integrated into the spacecraft. Fast forward, the next iteration was expected to evidence cost savings by using the existing processes...which were as helter-skelter as at any other aerospace company. I base that on having worked for all the majors. It came down to where two people- one engineer and one supervisor- were expected to take care of TWO payloads. So, four people, now two. Then, the job description was upped to include the role of test conductor. So, 6 people, now two. That was the situation. Then, the company offered a retirement package, which the other guy I was working with (ostensibly, the "supervisor") retired. So, it was six, then one (me). And I was doing it. Try to get promoted for doing six people's work, not happening (oh and BTW, I was doing another whole engineer's workload on yet another program, so 7 people's work). I would have stayed for a measly $25k a year raise (which, BTW, would have taken 3 years to achieve, because they didn't give it all up front), but they jacked me around on the promotion, too.   My wife talked me into talking to her parent's money people. It turned out that I could retire at 62. Fuck 'em; I left, and they had to hire several people to replace me.

[DodosAreDead]

I also have lived in the third world, and I agree that people who have no experience in it would be pretty surprised by what it's actually like. Lima has modern shopping malls indistinguishable from an American mall, and millions I slums. I find that most people who reference the third world (particularly min) have zero experience with it. 

 Even though the US trails behind Western Europe in dealing with extreme poverty, there is a huge difference between extreme poverty here and in the third world. Anyone who thinks differently just hasn't been there themselves to see.

Absolutely. The higher rungs of the third world are much, much better than how the West perceives them to be, but the lowest are still incomparab;e to any place in the 'developed' world. I find it funny how people in the West simultaneously look down upon the Third World and also claim to have similar situations in the lower sections of society... decide one way or the other. 

India is still regarded by many as poor, and was historically nonaligned and thus bonafide third world.  You can point to spectacular slums in cities in India that really has no match in the US.   But so what?   Increasing numbers of Indian graduates from science, engineering and management programs in elite America universities, who could easily find jobs in American economies, are choosing to return to India instead as offering better long term career prospects.

What does that tell you?

It tells me that India, being a growing economy, has more job prospects in STEM fields, (where most Indians still flock to in droves) where they actually need people. People are more affordable here than technology. Wages are nothing compared to the States. Many people I know were fired by Intel to be replaced by technology, they found jobs here in India because here they're not using that same technology, since it's too expensive.

[downbeatplumb]

Well America is a fascist country now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM1w8_dOcR8

[Fireball]

I'm not a fascist and I don't know anyone who is a fascist (at least openly). There are a lot more of those turds than I expected, though, since the sewer backed up and put cheeto von tweeto in the White House.

[John V]

More jobs than workers means pay will go up. It just takes some time for that to happen.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/worker...2018-07-31

American workers are finally reaping the benefits of the lowest unemployment rate and best jobs market in decades: Wages and benefits are rising at the fastest pace in a decade.

The employment cost index rose 0.6% in the second quarter, a tick below the MarketWatch estimate of 0.7%.

More important, the cost of worker compensation in the form of pay and benefits edged up to 2.8% to mark the biggest yearly gain since mid-2008.

Also note that if you're more concerned with the U.S. working class than with the economy as a whole, you should be against immigration:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/...obs-214216

Immigration redistributes wealth from those who compete with immigrants to those who use immigrants—from the employee to the employer. And the additional profits are so large that the economic pie accruing to all natives actually grows. I estimate the current “immigration surplus”—the net increase in the total wealth of the native population—to be about $50 billion annually. But behind that calculation is a much larger shift from one group of Americans to another: The total wealth redistribution from the native losers to the native winners is enormous, roughly a half-trillion dollars a year.

[Minimalist]

It just takes some time for that to happen.

Any day now....... any day now.  You're a blind fool, A/M.  The republicunts have been singing that same stupid song since Reagan.

[John V]

It just takes some time for that to happen.

Any day now....... any day now.  You're a blind fool, A/M.  The republicunts have been singing that same stupid song since Reagan.

Er, no...now, as the link I posted showed.

[Anomalocaris]

Immigration redistributes wealth from those who compete with immigrants to those who use immigrants—from the employee to the employer.

Correction:


Immigration redistributes wealth from those who can’t compete with immigrants to those who use immigrants—from the bad and worthless employees who don’t have the right skills, who can’t acquire the right skills, and who aren’t willing to be paid less than those who do, and who think they are worth something by virtue of being born here, to those who have the merits to be employers.

Fuck those losers who, with all the advantages of assess to first world education, still have to compete with immigrants, and worse yet, can’t win, and can’t even achieve a draw. Instead resort to nativism to availe themselves of the socialism they would condemn in others by inflicting upon us trump.

Fucking socialism-for-us-capitalism-for-everyone-else trumpomatic lowlifes.

We should export them to Timbuktu where the poor farmland needs fertilizers and import those who will work harder and feel less entitled to what they can’t earn with their own merits and real hard work.

[Minimalist]

Any day now....... any day now.  You're a blind fool, A/M.  The republicunts have been singing that same stupid song since Reagan.

Er, no...now, as the link I posted showed.

"Trickle down economics" started with that senile old fuck, Reagan.  Aren't you tired of being pissed on yet?  Or, like your Orange Turdfuhrer do you enjoy the golden shower?