Arguing with Anti-Vaxxer friend

[LadyForCamus]

[vulcanlogician]

I couldn't follow it either, but I did find a couple paragraphs that I could sort of understand:

Billions of humans have been vaccinated and marked regression or eradication of several severe infectious diseases was observed. Nowadays, the potential applications of vaccines extend far beyond prevention of infectious diseases, and vaccination is considered to be a most promising weapon against a variety of different conditions. Vaccine safety has been regarded as excellent at the level of the population (1), but adverse effects have also been reported (2).

Concerns about the use of aluminum adjuvants have emerged following (i) recognition of their role at the origin of the so-called macrophagic myofasciitis (MMF) lesion in 2001 (3, 4), which revealed fundamental misconception of their adjuvant effect and pointed out their unexpectedly long-lasting biopersistence (4); and (ii) demonstration of their apparent capacity to migrate in lymphoid organs and then disseminate throughout the body within monocyte-lineage cells and progressively accumulate in the brain (5).

So, apparently the study concerns the adverse effects of aluminum adjuvants, a component found in some vaccines. Apparently, the reactions only occur in a few individuals.

[Minimalist]

Then by all means tell them not to get vaccinated.

And also to stay away from you.

[The Valkyrie]

If he’s an anti vaxxer he can’t be a friend.

[LadyForCamus]

If he’s an anti vaxxer he can’t be a friend.

Valk!  You’re a doctor!  You gotta give me more than jokes, woman! ?

[Angrboda]

Ask your friend to explain what it means to them in their own words. Then see if that understanding is a relevant and valid concern. This study seems to highlight the potential for alum from vaccine adjuvants to accumulate in the brain as a consequence of repeated exposure. I'd have to read the study to quantify the amounts considered by the study, the amount needed for one's exposure to be problematic, and the actual quantity of alum adjuvant one is likely to be exposed to from vaccines and other sources. Unless those factors are known and related to each other, the consolidation in the brain which the article discusses cannot be determined to be relevant to the supposed pathological consequences of them. So it's unclear whether the exposure risk that one suffers as a consequence of vaccination significantly enhances risk of certain pathological outcomes. The abstract doesn't say.

[LadyForCamus]

[Whateverist]

Anyone seen the "ain't nobody got time to read that shit" gif?

For me these are just one of many types of conspiracy theorists. I don't like going down any of their rabbit holes. Keep your kids safe and well away from theirs.

[LadyForCamus]

After doing a bit more digging, there does appear to be some recent data calling the long term safety of the aluminum adjuvants into question, but it seems like more of a question mark than anything else right now. But again, I’m no doctor or scientist.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If your anti-vaxxer friend is concerned about this, answering two questions should settle the whole thing.

1.  How many lives have been saved as a direct result of vaccinations?

2.  How many lives have been lost due to metal poisoning from vaccinations?

There is a risk to - quite literally - everything. The question isn't 'Is there a risk to vaccinations?' but 'Are vaccinations worth the risk?'  I had a mate (this is years and years ago) who suffered a broken leg in a car crash.  He had the leg set at RVH, managed to contract sepsis, and very nearly died of it.  Does this mean setting a broken bone has an inherent risk?  Yes.  Does this mean that setting broken bones is a risky enough procedure to end the practice?  Come on.

Boru