I Suppose This is "Uncivil"

[Gwaithmir]

They loves their jesus, man.

"Well, I think that ol' cuss of a preacher lied like Dixie when he said that God has fought all out battles and won all of our victories, for if that were so, why was it not in the papers, and why has He NOT been promoted?" (Sgt. Albinus Fell, C.S.A.)

[LastPoet]

Using restaurant tipping as the initial example is unfortunate.  

"...only to turn around and refuse the basic act of decency that is paying someone what you owe them ... "

You don't owe anybody a tip.  What you owe them is the purchase price of the items you consumed, as listed on the menu.  If the meal has been accompanied by exemplary service, you may decide to reward  that service with an additional gratuity.  Or you may not.  In a way, the assumption of mandatory tipping perpetuates a system whereby the food service industry is allowed to continually underpay its employees.  More people than Christians feel this way.

OTOH, if one has  been provided with exemplary service, and one can afford to reward it, it would be crass not to tip, since that is the current societal norm for recognizing such service.  That Christians might be more crass than other customers comes as no big surprise.  Burning witches, blowing up healthcare clinics, and molesting kids is pretty crass, too.

I hear ya. In Portugal tipping isn't even a thing and actually waiters and people that work in restaurants make good money, way above the monimum wage..

It is a cultural thing I guess. The thing is employers here value their staff, because if they don't they will lose them to the competition. OFC there are bad workers too, but those quickly get the boot.

[Brian37]

Using restaurant tipping as the initial example is unfortunate.  

"...only to turn around and refuse the basic act of decency that is paying someone what you owe them ... "

You don't owe anybody a tip.  What you owe them is the purchase price of the items you consumed, as listed on the menu.  If the meal has been accompanied by exemplary service, you may decide to reward  that service with an additional gratuity.  Or you may not.  In a way, the assumption of mandatory tipping perpetuates a system whereby the food service industry is allowed to continually underpay its employees.  More people than Christians feel this way.

OTOH, if one has  been provided with exemplary service, and one can afford to reward it, it would be crass not to tip, since that is the current societal norm for recognizing such service.  That Christians might be more crass than other customers comes as no big surprise.  Burning witches, blowing up healthcare clinics, and molesting kids is pretty crass, too.

I hear ya. In Portugal tipping isn't even a thing and actually waiters and people that work in restaurants make good money, way above the monimum wage..

It is a cultural thing I guess. The thing is employers here value their staff, because if they don't they will lose them to the competition. OFC there are bad workers too, but those quickly get the boot.

I don't know the history of when tipping or where it began. I can say it really is nothing but a scam that gives both big business's and small businesses an excuse to pay labor under a livable wage.

It is true that depending on where you work, you can make a living on tips. But that is not the bulk of most tip jobs. Most people who work on tips, are under paid, and at best break even. Having worked delivery myself, and in restaurants, I always tip well. I would say both the customer and business would fair better by getting rid of it. The right always bemoans independence, and that is not a bad thing, but if that is their goal, you don't undermine worker independence by under paying them.

And as far as "bad workers", think about it. If you come into work, and especially if you are exhausted after working two jobs and especially if you have kids, and your pay isn't meeting the cost of living, how motivated are you to care what you do while on the job? If business owners want productivity, the best way they can get that is to pay livable wages. If a worker is not stressed out, and have the economic stability and time to their own life, they are going to be more happy and less stressed and more willing to be productive while on the job.

I know in Japan, they don't tip, at least in most places. And again, it is because the business owners pay better wages and don't dump that cost on the patron.

[Angrboda]

The practice of tipping began in Tudor England. "By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the host’s servants. Soon afterwards, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments".

Wikipedia || Gratuity

Somehow, I'm rather skeptical of your narrative, Brian.

[Brian37]

The practice of tipping began in Tudor England. "By the 17th century, it was expected that overnight guests to private homes would provide sums of money, known as vails, to the host’s servants. Soon afterwards, customers began tipping in London coffeehouses and other commercial establishments".

Wikipedia || Gratuity

Somehow, I'm rather skeptical of your narrative, Brian.

What "narrative"? 

It certainly is possible to earn a living off of tips. All I said is that for most who do, it is break even at best. There are far more who work restaurant and delivery whom have it as a summer job already having support as a teen or college student, or if they are adult workers with kids, they have to work more than one job and that is far more difficult, unless you work at say the Ritz Carlton. 

I have been to Japan and my X wife can tell you, most service places the workers do not take tips. 

I worked Pizza delivery myself for several years, and no, you cant live off of that without a second income or family support. At least not in the town I worked in. I can tell you between my rent, utilities, car insurance, and car maintenance even with the tips and minimum wage it was barely enough, and I was single. Wait staff make even less per hour at sit down restaurants not including the tips.

[Angrboda]

Somehow, I'm rather skeptical of your narrative, Brian.

What "narrative"? 

I can say it really is nothing but a scam that gives both big business's and small businesses an excuse to pay labor under a livable wage.

[LastPoet]

I don't know the history of when tipping or where it began. I can say it really is nothing but a scam that gives both big business's and small businesses an excuse to pay labor under a livable wage.

It is true that depending on where you work, you can make a living on tips. But that is not the bulk of most tip jobs. Most people who work on tips, are under paid, and at best break even. Having worked delivery myself, and in restaurants, I always tip well. I would say both the customer and business would fair better by getting rid of it. The right always bemoans independence, and that is not a bad thing, but if that is their goal, you don't undermine worker independence by under paying them.

And as far as "bad workers", think about it. If you come into work, and especially if you are exhausted after working two jobs and especially if you have kids, and your pay isn't meeting the cost of living, how motivated are you to care what you do while on the job? If business owners want productivity, the best way they can get that is to pay livable wages. If a worker is not stressed out, and have the economic stability and time to their own life, they are going to be more happy and less stressed and more willing to be productive while on the job.

I know in Japan, they don't tip, at least in most places. And again, it is because the business owners pay better wages and don't dump that cost on the patron.

As I said, People in the service business are better paid than lets say, factory work here. This is an aglo american tradition, tipping so you will have to find the roots of that in your own culture.