Alevism

[muhtesem insan]

There's a sect -spesific to Turkey- called Alevism. (not to be confused with Alawi's of Syria) Alevi's differ from other sect dramatically. It's a mixture of shi'a sufism and turkic paganazim -göktanrı(Skygod) religion-, some even says it's a different religion than a sect of islam. I believe it's turkicized version of Islam.
I wanted to write a detailed post about it but it seems someone did it in wikipedia, so this post'll be a biref one.
The most apparent difference is, Alevi's do not go to fast or practice salah because according to alevi belief you really do not need to show your love to god but they practice cem (meaning gathering) which women and men do it together , (most of the people do not see this important but it's the main difference for me) in alevi belief If you hold back yourself from an act with fear of going to hell, It's no different than doing it. If you don't steal because it's forbidden you're still a thief, you shouldn't steal because you know that it is wrong.
Alevi women have equal rights with men (not so in practice but this is due to feudal remnants in our culture). All marriages are monogomous. Polygamy is strictly forbidden.
Alevism -like sufism- is has a panthesitic nature. It is not panthesitic because it still recognize a seperate all powerful god, but it also say there's nothing but god.
here's the wikipedia link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevi

[downbeatplumb]

Sounds as far away from islam as mormonism is from christianity. Interesting.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

It's a mixture of shi'a sufism-----

Could you explain what is a sh'ia sufi, specifcally, compared with say a Mawlawi Sufi?

Alevism -like sufism- is has a panthesitic nature.

From whence did you get the notion that Sufism is pantheistic? That is most certainly not the understanding I got from Indries Shah Sayed ('The Sufis') from my own studies into Sufism, (specifically Sufi lodges in the Atlas Mountains) nor from personal association with a Sufi in London,who belonged to a lodge there. Of course some Sufis may well be pantheists,but pantheism is not a core belief in Sufism,if indeed there is such a thing..

Sufi ch'ist? Sufi suf'ist

[muhtesem insan]

Could you explain what is a sh'ia sufi, specifcally, compared with say a Mawlawi Sufi?

Shi'a sufi orders are -like all other shi'a orders- belives that Ali was legal predecessor of Muhammad. And believe in twelve imams.

From whence did you get the notion that Sufism is pantheistic? That is most certainly not the understanding I got from Indries Shah Sayed ('The Sufis') from my own studies into Sufism, (specifically Sufi lodges in the Atlas Mountains) nor from personal association with a Sufi in London,who belonged to a lodge there. Of course some Sufis may well be pantheists,but pantheism is not a core belief in Sufism,if indeed there is such a thing..

Sufi ch'ist? Sufi suf'ist

I didn't mean to imply that sufism is a pantheist belief system, but it has pantheistic properties. You can't Wahdat el-Wucud (I'm not sure if it's written like this in english too lazy to look it up ) is not related to pantheism.

---

Sounds as far away from islam as mormonism is from christianity. Interesting.

Some believe that it is a seperate religion. And name alevi do not come from Ali but alev (flame in turkish).

[Rayaan]

There's a sect -spesific to Turkey- called Alevism. (not to be confused with Alawi's of Syria) Alevi's differ from other sect dramatically. It's a mixture of shi'a sufism and turkic paganazim -göktanrı(Skygod) religion-, some even says it's a different religion than a sect of islam. I believe it's turkicized version of Islam.

Technically, I don't consider it as a sect in Islam because anything which excludes one of the five pillars of Islam cannot be Islam.

[muhtesem insan]

There's a sect -spesific to Turkey- called Alevism. (not to be confused with Alawi's of Syria) Alevi's differ from other sect dramatically. It's a mixture of shi'a sufism and turkic paganazim -göktanrı(Skygod) religion-, some even says it's a different religion than a sect of islam. I believe it's turkicized version of Islam.

Technically, I don't consider it as a sect in Islam because anything which excludes one of the five pillars of Islam cannot be Islam.

It's your interpretation of Islam that these "five pillars" are essential.

[Rayaan]

It's your interpretation of Islam that these "five pillars" are essential.

Not only my interpretation. This is agreed upon unanimously by the scholars of Islam (in both Sunni and Shia Islam).

You said that the Alevis don't pray nor fast, which we are clearly told to do so in the Quran, and that's why their beliefs are not in agreement with Islam. That's the main issue.

[muhtesem insan]

It's your interpretation of Islam that these "five pillars" are essential.

Not only my interpretation. This is agreed upon unanimously by the scholars of Islam (in both Sunni and Shia Islam).

You said that the Alevis don't pray nor fast, which we are clearly told to do so in the Quran, and that's why their beliefs are not in agreement with Islam. That's the main issue.

Because its their interpretation. The problem with religion it can not be tested. So If someone say this is my belief or this is my interpretation of Islam you can not say, "No you're wrong".

[annatar]

Not only my interpretation. This is agreed upon unanimously by the scholars of Islam (in both Sunni and Shia Islam).

But Alevi scholars disagree. so, you'll have to suck it in.
What you(or your scholars) do is to exclude anyone who do not agree with your points.
Even if they are like looking at a mirror, shias and sunnis are strictly hostile to each other..
There are millions of people who believe in alevi sect in Turkey. Alevism is just another (and the better) sect of islam and not having accepted that fact, shows the intolerance of muslims. You can't be tolerant to anyone including muslims with little different beliefs...

[Rayaan]

I don't understand why this is a better sect of Islam. To me, it seems like a culturalized version of Islam which negates the most fundamental teachings of the Quran. The Alevis have picked out the things they like about Islam while discarding everything else which they don't like. So, they basically distorted the religion to make it suit their own desires. They want to make Islam fit with their cultural values. However, this doesn't mean that I'm intolerant towards them. The only thing is that I don't agree with their interpretation. It's not a matter of which is a "better" sect, but rather, which of them has a sounder view of Islam in respect to the Quran and Sunnah. But yes, I'll suck it up that the Alevi scholars will disagree with me.

@ muhtesem insan: I think it's perfectly fine to say "No, you're interpretation is wrong" if it can be justified. This is what I have done in my previous post in the second line.