Do people who try to stop gay love deserve to be punished?

[Der/die AtheistIn]

I'm not referring in a legal way. Freedom of speech is very important, even if that means hearing a lot of bullshit. I am referring on a personal way.
I was thinking about the following imaginary situation. A gay kid comes out to their homophobic parent, said kid being financially independent. The parent doesn't disown their child and speaks politely, but won't change their mind no matter what and doesn't want to compromise or give up. So the kid says: "Gay couples can be as healthy as straight ones. As long as its true love and they respect eachoder it shouldn't be any problem. You are forbiding me to meet the love of my life for no good reason and as punishment for it you yourself won't be able to have contact with someone you hold dear, that being me.". I was thinking that this isn't the best option if you are trying to convince someone to change their mind, but is it possible that the parent deserves this punishment, or that the relationship isn't worth it?

[The Grand Nudger]

There's a gulf between what people deserve and what they get, or what we're willing to give.   So..it may be the case that some act means that a person deserves something super shitty, but most of us do a little napkin math about how shitty it would be to make sure they get what they deserve and decide what we're going to do about it based on the difference between the two.

[Yonadav]

I'm not referring in a legal way. Freedom of speech is very important, even if that means hearing a lot of bullshit. I am referring on a personal way.
I was thinking about the following imaginary situation. A gay kid comes out to their homophobic parent, said kid being financially independent. The parent doesn't disown their child and speaks politely, but won't change their mind no matter what and doesn't want to compromise or give up. So the kid says: "Gay couples can be as healthy as straight ones. As long as its true love and they respect eachoder it shouldn't be any problem. You are forbiding me to meet the love of my life for no good reason and as punishment for it you yourself won't be able to have contact with someone you hold dear, that being me.". I was thinking that this isn't the best option if you are trying to convince someone to change their mind, but is it possible that the parent deserves this punishment, or that the relationship isn't worth it?

This idea of personal unilateral punishment is getting out of control. You aren't trying to get along with others when you think that way. It is vindictive antisocial thought. Should I punish people for this? Should I punish people for that? Or would the world be a better place if someone were to handcuff me to a cinder block and toss me into the river?

[Der/die AtheistIn]

There's a gulf between what people deserve and what they get, or what we're willing to give.   So..it may be the case that some act means that a person deserves something super shitty, but most of us do a little napkin math about how shitty it would be to make sure they get what they deserve and decide what we're going to do about it based on the difference between the two.

That's true. It's also true that morality is subjective. But if you were in the mentioned child's situation, would you stop the relationship?

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh shut up Yon, lol.  How a person decides to interact with their parents is their own decision to make.  It's as unilateral as the parents decision to force the issue to this sort of terminus.

In any case, Der, IDK that anyone ever really stops their relationship with their parents so much as changes the parameters.  Only you, or whomever we're talking about, can decide whether or not the person in question is worth that sort of a change.  I know that I wouldn't give anyone in my family the time of day if they couldn't accept my wife.  If I got an invite to dinner that didn't include her, well...I hope they didn't make more food than they could eat themselves, because I'm not going. That's just the way it is. 

Hell, my grandparents once gave me shit for bringing "the wrong sort of girl" into their house - so they didn't see me or hear from me again for roundabouts four years. Don't get me wrong, love em to death - we have a great relationship and always have. They had their lines and I have mine. I'll say this..parents..in general, soften over time..at least with respect to their own children..even if their views calcify otherwise, lol. The love we have for our kids is usually enough to overcome whatever hate or implicit bias we carry.

[Yonadav]

Oh shut up Yon, lol.  How a person decides to interact with their parents is their own decision to make.  It's as unilateral as the parents decision to force the issue to this sort of terminus.

In any case, Der, IDK that anyone ever really stops their relationship with their parents so much as changes the parameters.  Only you, or whomever we're talking about, can decide whether or not the person in question is worth that sort of a change.  I know that I wouldn't give anyone in my family the time of day if they couldn't accept my wife.  If I got an invite to dinner that didn't include her, well...I hope they didn't make more food than they could eat themselves, because I'm not going.  That's just the way it is. 

Hell, my grandparents once gave me shit for bringing "the wrong sort of girl" into their house - so they didn't see me or hear from me again for roundabouts four years.  Don't get me wrong, love em to death - we have a great relationship and always have.  They had their lines and I have mine.  I'll say this..parents..in general, soften over time..at least with respect to their own children..even if their views calcify otherwise, lol.  The love we have for our kids is usually enough to overcome whatever hate or implicit bias we carry.

Did you stay away from your grandparents for your own good, or did you stay away to punish them? It's the difference between taking care of yourself or being a vindictive asshole. No one likes people who think vindictively (once they realize that the person thinks vindictively).

[Brian37]

There's a gulf between what people deserve and what they get, or what we're willing to give.   So..it may be the case that some act means that a person deserves something super shitty, but most of us do a little napkin math about how shitty it would be to make sure they get what they deserve and decide what we're going to do about it based on the difference between the two.

That's true. It's also true that morality is subjective. But if you were in the mentioned child's situation, would you stop the relationship?

I mentioned the cost benefit issue in any relationship. With a teen, or even a college student dependent on a parent for financial support, the subject isn't as easy. Nobody can ultimately tell you what to do with any relationship.

But the only cut and dry thing I would say would be physical and mental abuse. Nobody has the right to be physically or mentally abusive to you. But in a financially dependent situation when you are not of age, it isn't that easy. I've listened to atheist and gay teens over the years, and sometimes the best they can do is to lay low until they save enough money to get out on their own.

I do know from personal experience though, it is far easier to deal with parents as an adult. As an adult you are not legally bound to do what they say. It is still important to not shoot yourself in the foot without having a financial plan and place to stay if they were to decide to cut you off.

You have a right to be you ultimately. Telling someone or not telling them, is a case by case issue and only the person in that position can judge what they can do. But be pragmatic about it, and whatever you say, if you eventually do, it does not have to be a war in that case either.

Those who truly love you will not abandon you, even if they don't understand at first. Time usually bridges that gap as an adult.

The good news is, you can always plan and save even if you don't want to be open now. The good news is that once you are on your own and can support yourself, you'll find it easier to deal with any relationship.

[The Grand Nudger]

Did you stay away from your grandparents for your own good, or did you stay away to punish them? It's the difference between taking care of yourself or being a vindictive asshole. No one likes people who think vindictively (once they realize that the person thinks vindictively).

Yes, yes...this is absolutely a discussion of the vindictiveness of some child....... whose parents have flat out refused to accept their own child.  The very fact that any such change is conceptualized as a punishment shows the presence of empathy and guilt on the part of the child utterly lacking on the part of the parents. It might hurt the parents, you see, to be excluded from their childs life - a state of affairs clearly not considered on the other end.

Just stahp, lol.

[Yonadav]

Did you stay away from your grandparents for your own good, or did you stay away to punish them? It's the difference between taking care of yourself or being a vindictive asshole. No one likes people who think vindictively (once they realize that the person thinks vindictively).

Yes, yes...this is absolutely a discussion of the vindictiveness of some child....... whose parents have flat out refused to accept their own child.  The very fact that any such change is conceptualized as a punishment shows the presence of empathy and guilt on the part of the child utterly lacking on the part of the parents.  It might hurt the parents, you see, to be excluded from their childs life - a state of affairs clearly not considered on the other end.

Just stahp, lol.

You shouldn't be encouraging this kid to be thinking in terms of one bad turn deserves another, unless you think that we should all be living in a world of bad turns. Sometimes we have to make decisions that have negative consequences for others for our own protection. But if we impose negative consequences on others just to punish them for some hurt that they have caused us, we are no different than them. People who think vindictively do nothing but cause trouble for everyone around them.

[The Grand Nudger]

In mere reality, we're having an entirely different discussion than the one you want so desperately to comment on. Or..you know, we would be, if you could hold off from smearing shit everywhere.