Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: September 21, 2020, 3:02 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
There are no "Religions of peace".....
#71
RE: There are no "Religions of peace".....
I understand that you believe feeling good about that something doesn't actually mean that it will lead to good actions. It doesn't mean it will lead to bad actions either. We've already established that doing good/evil is human. What you're glossing over with every unnecessary repeat is that you're not acknowledging the power of the motivation. Moral motivations and metaethics correspond very strongly to motivators. We know we are all motivated to act based on tons of biological, societal, behavioral and cognitive forces. I was simply pointing out that an objective moral authority that is believed to be good and does good COULD influence motivation for societal good, not that it has to. Those humans can build organizations and to do all sorts of good/evil things. The culpability is on the individual still was my second point. I don't claim any "magic" being makes me DO bad/good. If a defined omni-god allows for sin and volition, then the onus is on the individual to act.

Christianity to me isn't a "transactionary scheme" or a way to "escape accountability". It's a love story about sacrifice and forgiveness to me. You know precisely where your bias lies and exactly where your emotive statement was wrong. Religion doesn't tacitly justify shitiness any more than society justified slavery and oppression.. oh wait it did/does. I believe it is profound but doesn't seem a very unique motivator. People say with/without religion you'd have good people doing good and evil people doing evil but for good people to do evil things that takes religion. That's crap. It doesn't take a moral lawgiver to be a shitty person, I posit that it takes ignoring that moral lawgiver to do that. Just because it's human instinct to find a scapegoat to avoid accountability doesn't make it true.

Socially, levels of religiosity correlate to better neighbors and more conscientious citizens than their secular counterparts. They give more money, donate more time, volunteer in the community more, etc. They also belong to more civic organizations, vote, get involved in the community, etc. This holds even controlling for a host of demographic factors. This applies to religious liberals just as much (if not slightly more so) than religious conservatives. -American Grace: How religion Divides and Unites us by Robert Putnam.

You guys just love to bitch about religion and bringing down the institution, and I guess it's the place for it. To be expected.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Reply
#72
RE: There are no "Religions of peace".....
(March 25, 2019 at 10:19 pm)tackattack Wrote: I understand that you believe feeling good about that something doesn't actually mean that it will lead to good actions. It doesn't mean it will lead to bad actions either.
-aaaand we discard the history and current disposition of the christian religion.

Quote:We've already established that doing good/evil is human. What you're glossing over with every unnecessary repeat is that you're not acknowledging the power of the motivation. Moral motivations and metaethics correspond very strongly to motivators. We know we are all motivated to act based on tons of biological, societal, behavioral and cognitive forces. I was simply pointing out that an objective moral authority that is believed to be good and does good COULD influence motivation for societal good, not that it has to. Those humans can build organizations and to do all sorts of good/evil things. The culpability is on the individual still was my second point. I don't claim any "magic" being makes me DO bad/good. If a defined omni-god allows for sin and volition, then the onus is on the individual to act.
Seems like a strange thing to say n response to a post in which I pointed out the power of motivation...and the unique power of religious motivations..but carry on...lol....

Quote:Christianity to me isn't a "transactionary scheme" or a way to "escape accountability". It's a love story about sacrifice and forgiveness to me. You know precisely where your bias lies and exactly where your emotive statement was wrong. Religion doesn't tacitly justify shitiness any more than society justified slavery and oppression.. oh wait it did/does. I believe it is profound but doesn't seem a very unique motivator. People say with/without religion you'd have good people doing good and evil people doing evil but for good people to do evil things that takes religion. That's crap. It doesn't take a moral lawgiver to be a shitty person, I posit that it takes ignoring that moral lawgiver to do that. Just because it's human instinct to find a scapegoat to avoid accountability doesn't make it true.
I could lie to you, and say that I've heard something more puerile than the above, if you like?   Although, I think that you might want to repeat that last sentence until it sinks in.

Quote:Socially, levels of religiosity correlate to better neighbors and more conscientious citizens than their secular counterparts. They give more money, donate more time, volunteer in the community more, etc. They also belong to more civic organizations, vote, get involved in the community, etc. This holds even controlling for a host of demographic factors. This applies to religious liberals just as much (if not slightly more so) than religious conservatives. -American Grace: How religion Divides and Unites us by Robert Putnam.
Do I need to explain the power of the brute force of demographics to you, or ask you to fact check this notion against the amount of foreign aid and charity proffered by the secular governments of the world compared to the parasitic "non profits" grifting off your ignorance and the cultural institution of "god"?  

Quote:You guys just love to bitch about religion and bringing down the institution, and I guess it's the place for it. To be expected.

Persecuted everywhere you go, just like magic book said you would be.

Fear, predation, terror, ghoulish lies, and killing the better man.  There's your"religion of peace". Do you really think that a soup kitchen, or a percentage of the proceeds of fraud covers those sins? Have you ever really considered whether you could make the case for christianity....to christ..?

If you ask me, when The Man said "all fall short"....he wasn't kidding. Some, apparently, fall shorter than others.
The essence of poverty, is that it annihilates the future - Orwell.

Reply
#73
RE: There are no "Religions of peace".....
It seems that it is unavoidable, if not natural, for any religion that has in its center all powerful being to dwell into preaching hate and racism. That's because bad things happen in the world: from natural disasters to human disasters, and to defend the all powerful being its adherents automatically start blaming people and groups of people for bad things (diseases, earthquakes, floods) therefore doctrines of hate and racism get created.
Reply
#74
RE: There are no "Religions of peace".....
(March 25, 2019 at 10:19 pm)tackattack Wrote: I understand that you believe feeling good about that something doesn't actually mean that it will lead to good actions. It doesn't mean it will lead to bad actions either. We've already established that doing good/evil is human. What you're glossing over with every unnecessary repeat is that you're not acknowledging the power of the motivation. Moral motivations and metaethics correspond very strongly to motivators. We know we are all motivated to act based on tons of biological, societal, behavioral and cognitive forces. I was simply pointing out that an objective moral authority that is believed to be good and does good COULD influence motivation for societal good, not that it has to. Those humans can build organizations and to do all sorts of good/evil things. The culpability is on the individual still was my second point. I don't claim any "magic" being makes me DO bad/good. If a defined omni-god allows for sin and volition, then the onus is on the individual to act.

Christianity to me isn't a "transactionary scheme" or a way to "escape accountability". It's a love story about sacrifice and forgiveness to me. You know precisely where your bias lies and exactly where your emotive statement was wrong. Religion doesn't tacitly justify shitiness any more than society justified slavery and oppression.. oh wait it did/does. I believe it is profound but doesn't seem a very unique motivator. People say with/without religion you'd have good people doing good and evil people doing evil but for good people to do evil things that takes religion. That's crap. It doesn't take a moral lawgiver to be a shitty person, I posit that it takes ignoring that moral lawgiver to do that. Just because it's human instinct to find a scapegoat to avoid accountability doesn't make it true.

Socially, levels of religiosity correlate to better neighbors and more conscientious citizens than their secular counterparts. They give more money, donate more time, volunteer in the community more, etc. They also belong to more civic organizations, vote, get involved in the community, etc. This holds even controlling for a host of demographic factors. This applies to religious liberals just as much (if not slightly more so) than religious conservatives. -American Grace: How religion Divides and Unites us by Robert Putnam.

You guys just love to bitch about religion and bringing down the institution, and I guess it's the place for it. To be expected.

If your motivation is based on the supernatural it might as well be based on Santa.
Reply
#75
RE: There are no "Religions of peace".....
(March 29, 2019 at 4:00 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: It seems that it is unavoidable, if not natural, for any religion that has in its center all powerful being to dwell into preaching hate and racism. That's because bad things happen in the world: from natural disasters to human disasters, and to defend the all powerful being its adherents automatically start blaming people and groups of people for bad things (diseases, earthquakes,  floods) therefore doctrines of hate and racism get created.

Um this just doesn't apply to monotheism and polytheism. Despite what many in the west want to believe about the religions of Asia, they are very superstitious, and while many of their religions do not have a God or Gods, they do have concepts of ancestor spirit worship and do believe in good spirits and bad spirits and even punishment in and underworld and reward in the heavens. And even in a place like North Korea, it would be a mistake to say they have no religion there. They are their own twisted concept of worship of the leader as a god.

The fact is most humans have a religion of some sort, and even long before there was human writing or nations, humans were grouping and competing and worshiping too. And humans even after the first writings and first boarders were still grouping and competing and basing their power struggles on the social norms of their local rulers. That has always been worldwide.
Reply
#76
RE: There are no "Religions of peace".....
Quote: Socially, levels of religiosity correlate to better neighbors and more conscientious citizens than their secular counterparts. They give more money, donate more time, volunteer in the community more, etc. They also belong to more civic organizations, vote, get involved in the community, etc. This holds even controlling for a host of demographic factors. This applies to religious liberals just as much (if not slightly more so) than religious conservatives. -American Grace: How religion Divides and Unites us by Robert Putnam.
That's about networking not religiosity and Robert Putnam is a sham 

Quote:hristianity to me isn't a "transactionary scheme" or a way to "escape accountability". It's a love story about sacrifice and forgiveness to me. 
Yes it is and no one cares what you think 


Quote:You know precisely where your bias lies and exactly where your emotive statement was wrong. Religion doesn't tacitly justify shitiness any more than society justified slavery and oppression.. oh wait it did/does. I believe it is profound but doesn't seem a very unique motivator. People say with/without religion you'd have good people doing good and evil people doing evil but for good people to do evil things that takes religion. That's crap.
Not it's not as believing some higher authority approves of your crap is a unique motivator 



Quote:It doesn't take a moral lawgiver to be a shitty person, I posit that it takes ignoring that moral lawgiver to do that. Just because it's human instinct to find a scapegoat to avoid accountability doesn't make it true.
No but definitely help shitty people justify their shittness more then other things

Quote:You guys just love to bitch about religion and bringing down the institution, and I guess it's the place for it. To be expected.
If by bitch you mean point out an obvious fact
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

Reply
#77
RE: There are no "Religions of peace".....
Most atheists are not "bitching" to be the sole power or cry because we are not the majority.

I am sick of my fellow humans, failing to consider that that was then and this is now. And that is most of what our skepticism is about.

It isn't about ending religion by force, or barbecuing kittens or raping your women. I is simply saying WE HAVE BETTER DATA NOW.

I am not out to force Islam or Christianity or Buddhism or Jewish or Hindu out of existence by force. But please, if you are basing your life on the claims of antiquity, I certainly cannot stop you, but I have every right to shout, " HEY MCFLY, THAT WAS THEN THIS IS NOW"
Reply





Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)