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Nondualism vs Dualism
#11
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
(April 16, 2019 at 10:44 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: But what you call "god" seems like a cop out to me. It's evading the question rather than answering it.

But, I could be wrong about that. Maybe what you call "God" is the solution to the puzzle. The real question is this: why should I accept your answer of God as the solution? What evidence or reasoning supports that thesis?

My God doesn't need acceptance. It doesn't intervene in our lives the way we would think a god should intervene, because it is not a dualistic entity. My God speaks to humans in many different ways, but has used numerous prophets. Like Jesus for example. But in Jesus case I would say that you'd have to accept Jesus Christ death as the only necessary sacrifice for humans to finally be able to say, "Enough!" Enough unnecessary bloodshed and hurt caused by us not first loving our neighbors. I accept his sacrifice along with his record as enough for me to accept him as my savior.

But I accept that Christianity is not for everyone

(April 16, 2019 at 10:39 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote:
(April 16, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Won2blv Wrote: After opening my consciousness with Ayahuasca and other psychedelics, I realized why there are so many paradoxes in science and the spiritual. I don't mean "supernatural" when I say spiritual. I'm more talking about a general personal experience held by each individual that constitutes their own personal truth. Each individual has their own universal reality where the unseen and the seen weave themselves together. We're all pretty much the same creature with the same basic needs, yet we all have something about ourselves that makes us a unique person.
Many things, and every single moment of our lives, really, all making us ever so slightly and cumulatively different from each other - and yet we remain within a few standard deviations after all of it.  Fun stuff.   

Quote:This is where I see the opening to the why the paradoxes exist. Its because we are one nondualistic  cosmic creature. There is one divine all and we are a piece of it the same as a liver cell is a piece of a human. But we are also built by little bits and pieces of bits of pieces of bits and pieces. So of course we experience a feeling of separation from our divine union with the universe, or what I call God.
You'd have to be more specific on this separation from what you call the divine.  My being built of bits and pieces of bits and pieces (so on and so forth) doesn't have the effect of disconnecting me from the sense of the numinous.  Perhaps some clarity on why that would "of course" lead to any such separation?  By what mechanism is the bits and pieces method of construction separating from a union with the universe?  

Quote:I believe that in our pre-existence (pre-bigbang) we existed as 1 solid entity built upon two perfectly symbiotic states of matter. I believe this entity held consciousness and consciously killed itself in order for more creation to spring forth. I also believe that we have the history of our making from the big bang until present written in our DNA.

Even if you think I'm full of shit, I'm curious what y'all believe concerning dualism vs nondualism. I say both
What do you base this belief on?

I base that belief only personal conscious experience
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#12
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
You experienced a pre-big bang state in which we(?) existed as one solid entity built upon two states of perfectly symbiotic matter(?), which killed itself(?), in order that more creation could spring forth(?)....and a history of our making in our DNA(?)..............................?

Sounds like one hell of a trip...but I can't help but suspect that you didn't really experience something quite as elaborate as all that. Are you talking about having some other experience..which, combined with a bunch of unstated stuff, leads you to believe so and so?



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#13
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
What if there are more than one form of duality
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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#14
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
(April 17, 2019 at 3:12 pm)Won2blv Wrote: I believe that in our pre-existence (pre-bigbang) we existed as 1 solid entity built upon two perfectly symbiotic states of matter. I believe this entity held consciousness and consciously killed itself in order for more creation to spring forth. I also believe that we have the history of our making from the big bang until present written in our DNA.

I base that belief [on] personal conscious experience

Um, I base the rejection of your belief on my personal conscious experience.

So where do you plan to go from here?
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#15
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
(April 17, 2019 at 4:50 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote:
(April 17, 2019 at 3:12 pm)Won2blv Wrote: I believe that in our pre-existence (pre-bigbang) we existed as 1 solid entity built upon two perfectly symbiotic states of matter. I believe this entity held consciousness and consciously killed itself in order for more creation to spring forth. I also believe that we have the history of our making from the big bang until present written in our DNA.

I base that belief [on] personal conscious experience

Um, I base the rejection of your belief on my personal conscious experience.  

So where do you plan to go from here?

The jimsonweed patch.

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#16
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
(April 16, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Won2blv Wrote: I believe that in our pre-existence (pre-bigbang) we existed as 1 solid entity built upon two perfectly symbiotic states of matter. I believe this entity held consciousness and consciously killed itself in order for more creation to spring forth. I also believe that we have the history of our making from the big bang until present written in our DNA.

Even if you think I'm full of shit, I'm curious what y'all believe concerning dualism vs nondualism. I say both

Big bang, AFAIK, covers the expansion of the Universe from a singularity through to its large-scale evolution.

Strictly speaking, time only began at the formation of the singularity.  Therefore, to use the term 'pre-big bang' is invalid and has no meaning.

In addition, before time began, space did not exist.  Therefore, the pre-big bang matter of which you speak cannot have existed because the space required to contain the matter didn't exist. 

Penrose, relatively recently, argued that time, pre-big bang, did indeed exist since the mathematics allows for this.  However, he also argues that time differences, pre-big bang, didn't exist.  Just when I had all my ducks in a line too.

Man, that was some trip you went on.
I don't know whether I need a bottle in front of me or a frontal lobotomy. Diablo
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#17
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
All I've really gotten from this thread is that the OP did some drugs and had a trippy trip.

Congrats ?
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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#18
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
I had a similar experience on LSD back in the 70's. I now believe I had fooled myself into that by reading "Be Here Now" and similar books. My experience was a combination of presuppositions turbocharged by a little square piece of paper. Recently,  I read a book by a neurologist that suffered a severe stroke. She describes how she could move effortlessly into this state of oneness with everything.  It was just a brain state I experienced, not a glimpse of a higher reality. The OP did not "open" his consciousness. He simply embellished his life with a drug experience.

"The problem with the people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they’re going to have some pretty annoying virtues."- Elizabeth Taylor






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#19
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
(April 16, 2019 at 10:22 pm)Won2blv Wrote: This is where I see the opening to the why the paradoxes exist. Its because we are one nondualistic  cosmic creature. There is one divine all and we are a piece of it the same as a liver cell is a piece of a human. But we are also built by little bits and pieces of bits of pieces of bits and pieces. So of course we experience a feeling of separation from our divine union with the universe, or what I call God.

I believe that in our pre-existence (pre-bigbang) we existed as 1 solid entity built upon two perfectly symbiotic states of matter. I believe this entity held consciousness and consciously killed itself in order for more creation to spring forth. I also believe that we have the history of our making from the big bang until present written in our DNA.

Dualism and nondualism both appear to be simply ways of conceptualizing reality. It's not at all clear that there is anything more to it than that. Regardless, I think you'd need to clarify a number of mereological concerns before you go galloping down the road to this pre-bigbang scenario. Concerns such as, what do you mean when you say that we are parts of this whole? What do you mean when you say that this whole had parts, i.e. what makes it a whole? And so forth. Failing that, all I can say is, "Cool story, Bro!"
[Image: ak_botan_saionji_005.jpg]
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#20
RE: Nondualism vs Dualism
I might be wrong and usually I am, but I think most particles in the universe are dualistic.
(Particle : Anti-particle)

Matter : Anti-matter

In that dual, it appears that matter won.

At present I have no reason to believe that I am like a cell in a much larger body.

I am trying to think how a cell in my own body could communicate with me, if it had the capability.

Cell -"Good job on the diet. We are still having cake tonight right ? Ok just checking."
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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