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Religious Questions
#21
RE: Religious Questions
(July 4, 2019 at 6:51 am)ignoramus Wrote: Actually I do have a serious religious question.

Is a belief in God an instant binary state eg: you instantly believe all the baggage that comes with the good book and adjust the mental gymnastics to make the story fit your new reality.
Or is it an analogue state. (The boiling the frog scenario.) eg: you swallow a little bit at a time, digest it, and years later you sincerely believe with all your heart that white Jesus rode a fucking T-Rex Dunno

From speaking with believers, I think both have been the case (although it's pretty tough to determine which is predominant).  I've known people who - while not strictly atheists - didn't care all that much about religion but became full-fledged believers in a matter of hours, usually after some significant event.  Others have told me that it was a long, arduous journey to ridiculousness.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#22
RE: Religious Questions
(July 3, 2019 at 2:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: As Drich seems concerned that there aren't enough religion-themed questions being posted, I thought I'd help.

[NB: These are not 'trick' or 'gotcha' questions, just an attempt to start a dialogue.]

1.  Regarding the Bible, are there particular standards you use for determining what is meant literally and what is meant allegorically, or is it more of a 'gut' feeling?
The Hebrew Bible is organized into three main sections: the Torah, or “Teaching,” also called the Pentateuch or the “Five Books of Moses”; the Neviʾim, or Prophets; and the Ketuvim, or Writings. It is often referred to as the Tanakh, a word combining the first letter from the names of each of the three main divisions.
The books of the prophets tell of the coming messiah/Jesus and the "writings cover history (kings psalms the song of solomon) # not reallylaw but the cultural foundations of the jews who they where.

Then the NT tells on how to become a christian which is a different religion all together than OT judaism. 4 gospels which tell of JEsus the book of Acts speaks of the establishment of the church, and establishes Paul and a legit church father giving him the right and authority to teach and expand the church. then you have the epistles which are the letters to the individual churches or people that make up the bulk of the new testament. these are important because each letter is a different way of dealing with sin in a given region/denominational system of belief. finally you have revelation which is a history of the last days as recorded by a bronze age man.

This means each book has a varing degree of importance. a psalm a book of "writtings/song of traditions" EI: A song a slave sang when in captivity does not challenge or cancel out say a command for the jew in the book of the law. nor is this considered a contradiction. as the book of psalms simply record what jews people sang at different times in their existences. for instance a jewish slave which wished their masters dead may sing about the joy they would feel smashing his master's kids head against the rocks... even though in the book of the law there is a command which forbids killing!

Quote:2.  I know you are convinced that your religious views are the correct ones (and that's fine).  People with other religious views are convinced of their own correctness and for similar reasons.  When these views contradict each other (everyone can't be right), do you ever consider the possibility that you might be mistaken?
what are other religious views? other christians or people who believe in other gods?
OTher christians (people who worship Christ are saved despte their errors like I am save despite mine. why? because the same grace that covers us when we will fully sin is there in much more abundance when we do our best and simply can not understand another way or the right way was lost to time. in a sense we as christians are charged to do our best and forgive others when they fall short just like we want God to forgive us when we fll short.

Other religions are easy. none of them meaning rank in file members have access to their God. access to their God is only granted by a prophet or emmisarry. everything is faith only based and you have to wait and see.... Christianity despite what you think is evidence based IF AND OnLY IF you seek this evidence n God's terms. think doubting thomas. Jesus did not condemn thomas for doubting he gave thomas what he needed to establish and maintain faith. Then he said blessed are those who do not need proof. meaning God will give those who can live off faith that much more, for everyone else God gave the Holy Spirit. So what kinda of proof do you get to believe in God? in a sense in one form or another you get God himself..

Once you are stood before the living God... no one else can be right... and again I know the popular thought is everyne can claim this across the board, but again 25 years of study says only Christianity take away the prophets preists and put the rank in file believer before God alone without go betweens.

Quote:3.  Hypothetically, if you could be persuaded that Jesus of Nazareth was not divine, would it be possible for you to still reverence him as a great moral philosopher?
Jesus' relevance is tied to deity. you can not have one without the other.

Quote:4.  How important are religious rituals to you, personally?
1- to 10? personally? 0. religion all religion is crap. now pair me with my wife or someone new in the faith and I will do whatever she/they needs to fill their religious cup. Religions are training wheels to get us to the point where we can commune with God directly, and teach and help others to also do so. They are of value because it is the bond or the binding that hold people who have little to no exposure with God to those who deal with him daily. However religion becomes toxic when God is removed and worship becomes about the methodology and not about spanning the gap for people.

Religion dies when God leaves a church and all that is left is methodology.
Quote:5.  Is there ANY passage in the Bible with which you have trouble reconciling your beliefs?

Boru
honestly no. with all my heart I say this: God a long long time ago showed me everything (not that I remembered any of it) but it changed the way I thought and think. this gives me access to his library of understanding and the bible. After I answered almost all of my questions I started in 2008 with CF.com answering christian questions about God and then atheist questions just so I could learn more. You all ask questions I would not have the nuts to ask, but in providing you with an answer I also learn something new.

Example I use to say I did not know about adam and eve and the dinosaurs, and taught it was ok. then one of you really pressed me and taunted if God is really with you you can provide us with the truth. I started to ask and honestly started to get pictures of how it all fell into place, iwa frantic writing stuff down as it was not in order. I would ask my self what does this verse say or does this verse cancel out this idea and on and on it went for 15 mins, then I took all the pages and laid them out in order. then I did what I do here. i research everything and cross check it.. I can remember how many times i did this. I made a few slight changes that made it jive with scripture, but that is it. and it has remain largely unchanged in over 10 years.


That was a big one..

Then the flood.. then that was answer relatively easy, again by remembering to read what was on page and frame it from the proper perspective. The primary being noah did not save the living creatures from God by putting on the boat he built. but Rather God needed noah to proove to all of us we have it within us to be worth saving. meaning it was noah's faith in God that had God save the creature (not noah) from a flood designed to wipe out not man, but evil. IE possessed men demons and hybrid giants (demi gods if you will)
So in sort the flood is not a logistical manual that shows how to save the planet from God but rather how God saved the world through one man's faith and a crapy little boat he built.
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#23
RE: Religious Questions
(July 3, 2019 at 2:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: 1.  Regarding the Bible, are there particular standards you use for determining what is meant literally and what is meant allegorically, or is it more of a 'gut' feeling?

I read the Bible, as I would any other piece of writing, or communication. If I read metaphor, allegory, irony, satire, sarcasm, etc.. in the Bible, it’s because it resembles or shares a commonality, in other areas where I read these things. For most of us who have a non-impaired inferential capacity, most of this comes fairly naturally, if you’re an avid reader of literature, perhaps even more perceptively.

Quote:I know you are convinced that your religious views are the correct ones (and that's fine).  People with other religious views are convinced of their own correctness and for similar reasons.  When these views contradict each other (everyone can't be right), do you ever consider the possibility that you might be mistaken?

My religious views are my worldview, and in order for it to be true other competing worldviews would have to be false, this would be the same if I held some godless worldview as well. Could I be mistaken? Sure, but my doubt here is as much as my doubts that I’m not a brain in a vat.

Quote:3.  Hypothetically, if you could be persuaded that Jesus of Nazareth was not divine, would it be possible for you to still reverence him as a great moral philosopher?

No, because I don’t see Jesus as a moral philosopher, Jesus didn’t so much preach the Good, as he embodied it. To see Goodness and Christ as one and the same is for me to see him as divine. For many atheists good is often a description of actions and behaviors, were as for me its a way of being.

Quote:How important are religious rituals to you, personally?

Pretty important. But I appreciate rituals in a variety of aspects of my life, like in my military career, wedding ceremony, etc.

Quote:Is there ANY passage in the Bible with which you have trouble reconciling your beliefs?

Possibly, though none come to my head as of now.
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#24
RE: Religious Questions
(July 3, 2019 at 3:40 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Was Jesus really a white dude?

no, he was a middle eastern jew.

(July 3, 2019 at 3:58 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Christians often say "Jesus said ...."  They seem to think he spoke in English, a language that would not exist for at least a thousand years (possibly more). They never allow for copying errors, mis translations etc.

because we have 2nd and 3rd century manuscripts written in koine greek. a language that we have a very firm grasp on and can accurately represent it in english with a 96 to 98% literal accuracy rate making changes only to syntax and grammar.

Your argument is based on a false hood that the bible is a translation of a translation. when in fact almost all holy bibles are translated from codices which are texts that can even date back hundreds of years before Jesus was born.

Understand, we have drafts from which we directly translate the bible from. it is not a translation of a translation, meaning when we say Jesus said... you are reading an english translation of what was recorded in the time of first churches, which was the only reason for a written record as before then the apostles themselves would give eye witness testimony.

(July 3, 2019 at 4:06 pm)no one Wrote: You mean satan's pillows?

the term is dirty pillows


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#25
RE: Religious Questions
And eye witness testimony is always so spot on.
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#26
RE: Religious Questions
(July 4, 2019 at 6:51 am)ignoramus Wrote: Actually I do have a serious religious question.

Is a belief in God an instant binary state eg: you instantly believe all the baggage that comes with the good book and adjust the mental gymnastics to make the story fit your new reality.
Or is it an analogue state. (The boiling the frog scenario.) eg: you swallow a little bit at a time, digest it, and years later you sincerely believe with all your heart that white Jesus rode a fucking T-Rex Dunno

Logical fallacy:False dichotomy 

The truth is we can only take in and understand to our limits. which is why you can have 5 different answers to the same question..

If a brother describes the reason for sin as being free will then that is the answer right for him at the moment. God does not count it against him just because he can not understand anything past his argument.

(July 10, 2019 at 11:01 am)no one Wrote: And eye witness testimony is always so spot on.

Your assumption is based on the idea that this is a unique or one time event. as my little anaology shows anyone can go through God's directions and find out for themselves. it is an open invitation, but only on God's terms.

Again sport it is no different than you and i liking tacos and me telling you of this new taco truck that parks on x and 3rd between 12 and 3 pm durning the week. If you want to have one of those tacos all you have to do is go to the truck on it's terms (at X and 3rd durning the week between 12 and 3 pm) and order and pay for your taco, and wait...

This is not a magic taco truck as claimed by those those who show up on a different street corner, and as a result will never find it. or those who have the right corner but show up only on saturday or sunday, or those who show up early or late. Or those who make their orders at the truck and demand the truck take their order to their home rather than wait.

There are conditions to this truck as well as God.. there is no home delivery and there is no scientific method that can help you get a taco from this truck if you show up at the wrong place at the wrong time or expect the truck to come to you on your terms. You want what the taco truck offers you must do it on their terms.

Like with God he has a very specific set of instructions follow them and he promises to be there waiting.. don't and nothing you can do will produce him.
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#27
RE: Religious Questions
god's terms? Is this why santa never brought me Wonder Woman and Jamie Summers?
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#28
RE: Religious Questions
You just looking for the last word or do you need me to tell you God's terms has nothing to do with Christmas as it is not a day set aside by the bible for anything special.

Meaning the reason santa did not bring you wonder woman or Jamie summers is because he knew you were already choking you little chicken raw, and if you had access to the real thing you would make yourself a unic. count your blessings.
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#29
RE: Religious Questions
I get it, the D is short for Dunce, right?

Your ability to connect the dots, even though they are clearly marked, is abysmal.
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#30
RE: Religious Questions
(July 3, 2019 at 2:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

1. I believe it can be both. I compare words with originals, gather the context from a topological exegesis and then start with the literal and move into a semiotic analysis. All that with the presuppositions that God is Real, God is Divine, and Divine inspired words should hold deeper meaning and have intricate ties, and that the allegory should be true only if the literal is true. Sometimes I am inspired to delve deeper. Sometimes I am given insight into deeper meaning. I don't believe that inspiration from God necessitates dictation of God's words and thoughts.

2. Actually more than one can be correct. Just because the different parts of the body don't have visibility of each other's function doesn't mean they're not both working toward the same goal. To answer the root of your question, I do not assume I know everything, or that my version is the correct version for everyone. I use those instances to re-evaluate my interpretation and if I feel it's correct for me, with my understanding, I agree to disagree. It's not about proving who is right, but acknowledging where you can learn from a different perspective and growing in your understanding as iron sharpens iron.

3. If Jesus said he was divine and you could convince me that He wasn't, then I wouldn't consider Him a great moral philosopher because that would make Him a liar.

4. On a scale of 1-10, one being the least, probably around a 3. Is there particular rituals you had in mind?

5. Not off the top of my head.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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