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RE: Literal and Not Literal
November 5, 2019 at 6:54 pm
(This post was last modified: November 5, 2019 at 6:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Ostensibly, religion at it's best would be religion best positioned to serve it's interests..which probably aren't Bels.
Aligning itself with local powers is a great way to realize it's potential. Similarly, islam doesn't actually rail against worldly authority, it seeks to assert itself -as- a worldly authority. I submit that religion, at its worst..by some peoples reckoning, is more accurately religion at its best. Fully actualized, driving discourse, and achieving its own goals. We have certainly seen religion at it's best, and it's impressive in it's ability, even if we put a negative value on what it does at it's best and a positive value on what it does when it's too small and disenfranchised to make any difference.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Literal and Not Literal
November 5, 2019 at 7:11 pm
(This post was last modified: November 5, 2019 at 7:12 pm by EgoDeath.)
Well, in bels mind, religion at its best seems to be a nuanced, beautiful collection of symbolic tropes that teach people how to live ethically.
Id love to meet these religious folks - they sound some somewhat pleasant, even if theyre misguided and misinformed.
Strangely, bel seems to be the AF representative of this demographic, constantly defending them and tirelessly trying to convince us all that were confused about what religion is... And hes an atheist.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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RE: Literal and Not Literal
December 21, 2019 at 11:35 pm
"The obscurities of figurative words, which I must discuss next, require extraordinary attention and persistence. First of all, we must be careful not to take a figurative expression literally. What the Apostle said has reference to this: 'The letter kills, but the spirit gives life.' When a figurative expression is understood as if it were literal, it is understood carnally. And nothing is more appropriately named the death of the soul than that which causes the quality in the soul which makes it superior to beasts (that is, its intelligence) to be subjected to the flesh by close conformity to the literal sense. A man who conforms to the literal meaning considers figurative words as if they are literal and does not transfer what is signified by a literal word to its other sense. If he hears about the Sabbath, for example, he thinks only of one day out of the seven which are repeated in continuous sequence. When he hears of sacrifice, his thoughts do not rise above the usual sacrifices of victims of the flocks and fruits of the earth. It is a wretched slavery of soul, indeed, to be satisfied with signs instead of realities, and not be able to elevate the eye of the mind above sensible creation to drink in eternal light."
--Augustine
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RE: Literal and Not Literal
December 22, 2019 at 3:30 am
(This post was last modified: December 22, 2019 at 3:30 am by Fake Messiah.)
Yeah Christians always considered Bible to be a metaphor and yet they killed people as heretics when they didn't take stories from the Bible literally and banned books from Copernicus because he described universe different than that in the Bible.
Belacqua is delusional again.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Literal and Not Literal
December 22, 2019 at 6:22 am
The bible does not have any where in it when it says. "this next bit is a metaphor and not to be taken literally" So people did and do take it literally and many many have been killed because it being taken literally by believers.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Literal and Not Literal
December 22, 2019 at 7:07 am
(December 21, 2019 at 11:35 pm)Belacqua Wrote: "First of all, we must be careful not to take a figurative expression literally."
--Augustine "Second: We must not rationalize every word written as a metaphor, just because the literal translation would prove it wrong"
--Me
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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RE: Literal and Not Literal
December 22, 2019 at 8:13 am
(December 22, 2019 at 6:22 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: The bible does not have any where in it when it says. "this next bit is a metaphor and not to be taken literally" So people did and do take it literally and many many have been killed because it being taken literally by believers.
There are atheists who think like fundamentalists. For them, every line of the Bible is only and always one thing.
The idea that it has many authors, many goals, an evolving history of hermeneutics, etc., is too much to think about.
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RE: Literal and Not Literal
December 23, 2019 at 1:19 am
(December 22, 2019 at 8:13 am)Belacqua Wrote: (December 22, 2019 at 6:22 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: The bible does not have any where in it when it says. "this next bit is a metaphor and not to be taken literally" So people did and do take it literally and many many have been killed because it being taken literally by believers.
There are atheists who think like fundamentalists. For them, every line of the Bible is only and always one thing.
The idea that it has many authors, many goals, an evolving history of hermeneutics, etc., is too much to think about.
Way to avoid the answer. Writers of Bible were also fundamentalists then because they never acknowledge that Bible is only a metaphor. Take genealogy of Jesus in Luke 3:23-38 "Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli [...] the son of Adam, the son of God."
Yes the son of Adam. Imagine having ancestors who are only a metaphor, like Adam, Noah, Moses, David... doesn't make sense.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Literal and Not Literal
December 23, 2019 at 7:27 am
(December 22, 2019 at 6:22 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: The bible does not have any where in it when it says. "this next bit is a metaphor and not to be taken literally" So people did and do take it literally and many many have been killed because it being taken literally by believers.
I was tired when I wrote this but the point stands.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Literal and Not Literal
December 23, 2019 at 10:51 am
(December 22, 2019 at 8:13 am)Belacqua Wrote: (December 22, 2019 at 6:22 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: The bible does not have any where in it when it says. "this next bit is a metaphor and not to be taken literally" So people did and do take it literally and many many have been killed because it being taken literally by believers.
There are atheists who think like fundamentalists. For them, every line of the Bible is only and always one thing.
The idea that it has many authors, many goals, an evolving history of hermeneutics, etc., is too much to think about.
It (the bible) also has many readers, with many backgrounds and many ideas and they should be allowed to determine what they consider literal/not literal. Not only based on what they read but also by what they are told by those that worship.
Bel, are you the authority that is going to tell us what to consider literal or not?
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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