Preying on the vulnerable

[zwanzig]

I feel like this is a topic that I circle a lot. The idea of God forcefully humbling you in order to let His spirit into your life. Because, although, he won't show himself to you physically, in order to preserve your free will, he sure will orchestrate your life circumstances to get you desperate enough to fall to your knees.

I worry about my resolve sometimes. 

This is the first time in a long time that things have been going so well in my life. Last time I went back to church after years of inactivity, I fell to my knees in a moment of desperate pleading. I felt that validation from the Spirit that I expected, that warmth of an endorphin rush that signalled someone was listening and heard me. 

Then again, when I was inactive from church before, I was still a believer at heart. This time is different. Not only do I strongly think there is nothing there but my "probably" thoughts are enraged that I might be manipulated and preyed upon by greater forces. Maybe I could get desperate enough to fall to my knees again but it'd only be a delusional moment where I raise my middle fingers up at the nothing that was cursing me for its pleasure.

 i probably get too anxious about this. But the clarity I feel now, I am possessive of it. The old me is a stranger and I can't believe he fell for any of it. So I worry that I am him still, deep inside.

[The Grand Nudger]

You are. Religion is just one expression of a trait ubiquitous to humanity. Religiosity a measure of how seriously we take intuitions common to our species.

If you believe a set of things are true about the scared and divine and taboo (or possess such an intuition), those beliefs are not going to evaporate just because you stopped believing in gods anymore than I am free of similar beliefs or intuitions on account of never having believed in them at all.

You may, I think, have more cause to be skeptical of those beliefs or intuitions than I, but only insomuch as and for however long it takes you to find some other way to express those truths apart from god or belief in god. We're all vulnerable this way, religions couldn't even help but to prey on the vulnerable this way. It's worth pointing out that if those assertions to truth ever had -any- value in a godless world, that value couldn't have been wrapped up in whether or not the pocket pixie existed in the first place.

[arewethereyet]

If you take the time to look into cults, you will see how they focus on vulnerable people. I have a crazy fascination with cults and it's a common theme that many people who buy into a cult leader are lacking something, or they think they are lacking something. It's like they have a vacant spot within themselves and the teachings of a charismatic leader seems to fill the void. Often there's been some tragedy or loss that leads these people to seek answers to emotions they can't seem to process.

Listening to the stories of people who "woke up" and left a cult you often hear that they were floundering and thought the cult filled a need for them. Later they realize that they fell prey to a group that knew what to say.

For a child being indoctrinated in a strict religious sect, those teachings are deeply etched and not easily cast aside.

I get the feeling you (Five) are too hard on yourself and that you expect to be able to turn deeply ingrained thoughts on and off like a light switch. It really doesn't work that way. You are learning about yourself and about the world outside of the religion you were raised in and that may entail two steps forward and one step back from time to time.

It's almost a grieving process to let go of something that was such a big part of your life...even if that thing was bad or untrue.

[Brian37]

I feel like this is a topic that I circle a lot. The idea of God forcefully humbling you in order to let His spirit into your life. Because, although, he won't show himself to you physically, in order to preserve your free will, he sure will orchestrate your life circumstances to get you desperate enough to fall to your knees.

I worry about my resolve sometimes. 

This is the first time in a long time that things have been going so well in my life. Last time I went back to church after years of inactivity, I fell to my knees in a moment of desperate pleading. I felt that validation from the Spirit that I expected, that warmth of an endorphin rush that signalled someone was listening and heard me. 

Then again, when I was inactive from church before, I was still a believer at heart. This time is different. Not only do I strongly think there is nothing there but my "probably" thoughts are enraged that I might be manipulated and preyed upon by greater forces. Maybe I could get desperate enough to fall to my knees again but it'd only be a delusional moment where I raise my middle fingers up at the nothing that was cursing me for its pleasure.

 i probably get too anxious about this. But the clarity I feel now, I am possessive of it. The old me is a stranger and I can't believe he fell for any of it. So I worry that I am him still, deep inside.

I don't care if you worship Yahweh, Allah, Jesus, Thor, Ganish, Marduke, or Spiderman, it is all the same bullshit.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I feel like this is a topic that I circle a lot. The idea of God forcefully humbling you in order to let His spirit into your life. Because, although, he won't show himself to you physically, in order to preserve your free will, he sure will orchestrate your life circumstances to get you desperate enough to fall to your knees.

I worry about my resolve sometimes. 

This is the first time in a long time that things have been going so well in my life. Last time I went back to church after years of inactivity, I fell to my knees in a moment of desperate pleading. I felt that validation from the Spirit that I expected, that warmth of an endorphin rush that signalled someone was listening and heard me. 

Then again, when I was inactive from church before, I was still a believer at heart. This time is different. Not only do I strongly think there is nothing there but my "probably" thoughts are enraged that I might be manipulated and preyed upon by greater forces. Maybe I could get desperate enough to fall to my knees again but it'd only be a delusional moment where I raise my middle fingers up at the nothing that was cursing me for its pleasure.

 i probably get too anxious about this. But the clarity I feel now, I am possessive of it. The old me is a stranger and I can't believe he fell for any of it. So I worry that I am him still, deep inside.

I don't care if you worship Yahweh, Allah, Jesus, Thor, Ganish, Marduke, ABBA or Spiderman, it is all the same bullshit.

FTFY.

Boru

[purplepurpose]

I also can't stomach idea of eternal servitude, where I'm some kind of loyal masochistic robot, who wishes Lord to be proud with me and complete his commands.

[vulcanlogician]

I worry about my resolve sometimes. 

I think something that might help is to discontinue worrying about your resolve. There are a lot of different interpretations of reality out there. Let yourself be an "agnostic surfer" not really tied to one ideology or another... including atheism. The religious like to portray acceptance of a worldview as some kind of commitment. I like how philosophers do things: as soon as a view becomes untenable, you jump ship.

Save your resolve for real life commitments (wife, career, etc.). Don't waste your resolve on ideology. At least not right now. Wait until you have given those "atheist jeans" time to fully break in, and you feel extremely comfortable in them. Then make a commitment. IDK about atheism per se, but secularism is something I found to be a worthwhile commitment. But I feel no need to evangelize or urge others to make this commitment. I'll leave that sort of behavior to the religious.

This is the first time in a long time that things have been going so well in my life. Last time I went back to church after years of inactivity, I fell to my knees in a moment of desperate pleading. I felt that validation from the Spirit that I expected, that warmth of an endorphin rush that signalled someone was listening and heard me. 

Then again, when I was inactive from church before, I was still a believer at heart. This time is different. Not only do I strongly think there is nothing there but my "probably" thoughts are enraged that I might be manipulated and preyed upon by greater forces. Maybe I could get desperate enough to fall to my knees again but it'd only be a delusional moment where I raise my middle fingers up at the nothing that was cursing me for its pleasure.

 i probably get too anxious about this. But the clarity I feel now, I am possessive of it. The old me is a stranger and I can't believe he fell for any of it. So I worry that I am him still, deep inside.

Look man. Life is hard. We all are in danger of falling into such great despair that we will reach out for anything that has even a remote chance of aiding us. Since religious doctrines fall under the category of "anything," you better believe that our desperate selves will reach out for them in times of great strife.

The idea that God purposely enacts such tribulations is manipulative and predatory. Cults prey on the weak and desperate, as we all know... but with interpretations like this, we see that mainstream religion does much the same thing.

And, speaking of interpretations, I've found things like "Humble yourself and you shall be lifted" to be true sometimes. But I tend to look at it like a secular truth. And not an absolute truth either, just one that rings true sometimes. So an atheist can come to believe something like "humble yourself and you will be lifted" in the context of a godless world. It's an automatic psychological process. The only difference is, when a religious person experiences this, they have their peers tacking on a religious interpretation of the events. Instead of just being a truth, it becomes a Religious Truth™.

Next time you experience a "warmth of an endorphin rush that signalled someone was listening and heard me" consider alternative interpretations. Not right at that moment. That would spoil the comfort provided by your current psychological state (in a "thinking too much" way). But reflect on such experiences afterward, and see if there aren't other ways to interpret them. After all, a warm rush of endorphins doesn't necessarily indicate someone is listening. God poking his head out of the clouds and saying, "Hey man. I'm listening." would be a much clearer indication.

[Reforged]

Your concern is warranted.
Just because you cleansed the wound doesn't mean it can't get infected by something else. The urge to embrace certainty in dogma is strong in us all and dogma is not solely the domain of religion. You'll always be being proselytized to from all sides. Always.
Being possessive of your clarity is the right move, never relinquish it and never commit to one mode of thought or ideology.
Let everyone show you their hand and never, ever show all of yours.
There is no advantage in showing people how you tick and every advantage in knowing how they do. It'll allow you to seamlessly navigate through the ebb and flow of whatever lunacy of the day is popular while keeping your head.
Because the world is insane and humanity is a mob. It always has been, it always will be. Survive it and enjoy the show.